I was as surprised as many of you when I saw Ex as admin. I didn't post immediately, because I wanted to get some information on the situation.

I have never seen any shaped opinion of the 'community' that you speak of in regards to what it should be.
First of all, any website must accept everyone and grant every member the basic amount of respect. Both SEN and ML do this. However, if a member does not respect the community, the website does not respect that member in return by suspending or banning him. The difference between SEN and ML is that ML asks a bit more respect and tact.
People (me included) were active members of ML because it was simply a better place for them. If you have two parties going on this night, one with people you like and one with people you don't like, which one are you more likely to attend? Don't say that you'll go to the one with people you don't like to 'do something about it', because you don't have much say over what's going on at that party. Believe me, I wanted certain crap filtered out at SEN, but it was not my call, it was the call of the staff panel.

Your following paragraphs are have better points.

Now, on to my opinion on the matter.

The one I am truly dissapointed in is IP. He showed slacky attitude to the community and website matters many times. The GF case Doodan spoke of, Pyro getting moderator position (he helped turn the announcement topic into flame), IP's dissapearing acts and some more I forgot. Yes, I know you pay for the site, IP, thank you very much for that, but that doesn't mean that you can do whatever you feel like; you have to show some respect to the people you work with, especially the staff panel. In this case, seems like IP disregarded anyone's opinion on the subject. And I hate it when something that can have an effect on me goes on without my opinion being asked (or the opinion of someone I trust - the higher ranks of the staff panel). I think IP is not taking SEN seriously enough.

OK, what's done is done. I don't think Ex'es position should be changed. I know for sure that if you put faith in an individual's better qualities, it is more likely that he will express them. If Ex fails as an admin, he can always be removed from his position. Though, truth be told, I wouldn't have supported giving him admin if he was a member, now that he's admin, we might as well go along with it and see what happens.

Eh. I guess that's kinda the idea here. Ex does have good intentions and a desire to make things better. He is very passionate about the community.
We'll give him a chance and see if he proves his words. If not, then okay, so be it. If he does, then we'll be better prepared for SC2.
Too be honest, I was under the impression his dedication would be to mostly SEN, thus the whole part of me stepping down.

I assume that most members that posted in this topic will really have nothing to worry about, and Ex being admin would have no affect on them personally. If nothing else, you'll find SEN more pleasant than having to deal with some pointless comment in a serious topic. Again, we'll wait and see.

Hopefully Null will still remain a place for some pretty laid back topics and we won't be like ML 1.0's idea of a map factory


Edit:
JaFF, I pretty much agree with what you said.
I do really care about SEN, even if it doesn't appear like it sometimes.

Edit 2:
Really, SEN just needed something dramatic to happen. It's been too long, it's kinda SEN's forte. (/joke)

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Jun 11 2009, 1:37 pm by isolatedpurity.

If only we had some example from the past of SEN hiring a 'community administrator' who was more concerned with his pet project than SEN.

... Wait.

Whut?

I have to agree that a global moderator is far more appropriate. It seems to me the transfer of the position was simply to give Excalibur the admin symbol, to alleviate the amount of feedback and problem spam IP gets as an admin- which I am in support of if it allows IP to focus on code. However, carrying those guns also requires a leadership I do not see in Excalibur, or at least I have not seen proved.

Frankly, I don’t want to wait to see it proved. In my experience, these things don’t make immediate changes or differences in the site. It’s pretty much the same thing, maybe a post here or there that gets deleted when it wouldn’t’ve before, maybe a person who gets suspended whom otherwise wouldn’t, and at the end of the probationary window, no damage is seen and the position stays. The problem is that the real effects fester and brood over time, if only on a psychological level- the kind of impression you get when you enter the site, or even just when you think of the community. A job with an anal or erratic boss is far less appealing even if that fact doesn’t affect your work or even the policies much.

Excalibur’s posted ideals of what how he’d like the site to be can’t exist; not because they are too unreal, but because we simply don’t have the user base to constitute it. We’re essentially the last of the crop until SC2 releases and we’re not going to magically produce more and better content, or receive more responsible visitors because of an adjusted standard.

With Excalibur investing himself “110%” in a pet rival, the very fact that mere two weeks ago he at least on some level intended to get himself banned, that he went from member to admin in one sudden swoop without consent from Moose- I see this as sudden and unnecessary. I can’t see any benefit from this. I don’t have any personal qualm with Excalibur, but if it were up to me, I’d demote him promptly and let the thing be forgotten.

Not that I maintain any illusion that my opinion matters.

Lol

It's simple, really. Either something good will come of this, and people will stay. Or people will be disappointed, and they will go elsewhere or leave the community completely.

Well, back to my battlefield of improving CC. (And only CC.)

I didn't think it would come to this, but I quit. Remove me from moderator of Null and SD.

Good-bye.

I don't understand why everyone is making a big deal. It's not like this hasn't happened in the past. How do you think IP became an Admin?

Indeed, Moose, indeed. If Excalibur is an admin, what are you doing with the job? Are not you yourself angered that he has been granted essentially the same position as you? Also, Moose, you've started talking to yourself.


He is not just a mod, which has been made clear at least five times in this topic.


Hercanic is wise. It would seem that SEN is a secondary priority to Excalibur and his fallback plan should Maplantis fail. Is SEN but a stepping-stone or a training ground? Something to be used for experimentation and exploited for personal gain? In the light of these facts, I can honestly say that I am dismayed that Excalibur was able to, in good faith, accept the position that IP offered.


People who contribute and have earned their respect should get some benefits that they deserve. If that is elitism, then so be it.


There are proper times and places for experimentation. Doing so with an admin position sends some subtle messages about the nature of the position itself.


If you want me to elaborate, I will. I shouldn't have to, however, because you, Heinermann, were there.

I'm not talking about that. Yes, it's true that they should get what they deserve, but if there is a closed off community, how would new people that have potential to make something of themselves even get the chance?

Oh great, now moose's talking to himself!

Wasn't SeN a little smaller then? Also, I have it on good authority that Excalibur kind of makes some people around here rage.

In approximately one day, you've managed to kill a lot of pages.

If Ex manages his job well and gets the job done, does anything really matter?

As Moose reminded me, different circumstances.

It really is silly for Ex to be admin'ing two similar sites, that I will definitely agree on. It seems like he is teetering between his two separate desires.
On the subject of him starting off as a gmod, it was my intention that he would do a lot more than what would be expected of a typical gmod. The jump was basically throwing him into the fire and seeing if he could survive.

I do believe I joined in 05 much like Ex. As with a lot of us, I have gone through maturity whilst at this site. This also means I've seen a nice chunk of SEN's life and witnessed many epic battles, dramatics and scandals.

A common problem SEN faced, is keeping members under the rock on these matters. A poll may not be quite what's needed, but a chance to express opinion before the emotion will surely come a lot smoother.

My personal opinion on Ex is that he's biased, immature and not commited entirely.

This is evidant by my personal encounters, witnessings and judgements. Whilst also evidant by the pages in this topic (I read 9.)

Truth be told there ARE in fact more capable members. I for one salute the ideas of DTBK making a return to admin. Doodan, Farty and Vrael are also great candidates.

I've had conflicts with all at one point or other, but never felt biased.

All in all, I dissaprove, but shall abide. Would feel better if he hadn't a globe, but won't lose sleep over it.

DTBK is a capable admin. I forget what exactly his deal is and why he was deadmined. I spend a lot of time away from the site. Doodan and EzDay and other pillars of sanity aren't active enough to be community leaders.

Farty is incompetent imo. I <3 you Farty but you're incompetent often times

But the idea is not to maintain the status quo, it's to shake things up which is what IP is doing.

At first I thought this (Excalibur becoming an adminstrator) was some badly timed April fools joke but I guess it's true afterall.

Like him or not, he is your (our) admin now. Complaining only hinders everyone. Give him time and perhaps you may even find him to be of your liking. I remember I was extremely shocked back around 2004 when Yoshi (or minimoose? can't remember exactly) all of a sudden gave IsolatedPurity (a person who literally just recently joined SEN about a month earlier) the highest position for Staredit Network. I felt uneasy with this decision as did many but as time transpired and our community prospered the decision turned out to be the better for all of us.

To your knowledge, was IP administrating another site that he claimed will receive 110% effort?