It does sounds a little cheesy... but perhaps he's just dumbing it down for the general population.
And actually, with your example, it also needs to be: a thief who continues to steal from you (and extra bonus if you also give freely to him). God hates sin. We won't be without sin until we die. Also God is like dimensionless, and we won't be until we die as well.

Jesus fulfilled the Law of Moses, that law was because of the Law of Moses, and Jesus later asks if it's lawful to do good on the Sabbath. People who bash the Bible really need to learn not to take things out of context..

Who has a better chance at salvation, a gay Christian or a sinless atheist?

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 31 2009, 4:57 pm by Doodan. Reason: changed "faggot" to "gay" - someone complain

The Atheist. They aren't a true Christian if they're a serious sinner.

How "serious" is a serious sinner? Last I checked, probably nobody lives a life without doing SOMETHING that would be considered a sin. Do different sins have a point value, and if you exceed a certain number when you die, you get sent to hell? Where is that fine line separating a sinner from a non-sinner?

And besides, isn't a Christian simply a person who believes in God? I've never met a person who actually believes God exists, yet doesn't consider themselves a Christian.

Being a Christian isn't simply about believing in God. It is about following the teachings and ways of Life Jesus Christ and his followers/disciples have shown (which unfortunately many "christians" fail to do.) Faith without action is dead.

You've never met a non-Christian theist? REALLY?

There's repentance, if the sinning Christian repented with pure intent, he would be forgiven.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 31 2009, 5:50 am by Dapperdan. Reason: language

What if a person were to repent if he had more time, but he instead got run over by a truck or something? What if he simply needed more time? That would be highly unfortunate, no?

Well, when I said "God" I meant the Christian God.

You should not discuss at all- because you are failing to understand the meaning of 'faith', and with 'faith in God is the road to salvation' has nothing to do with a person getting run over by a truck or having lack of time.

It's a sin if you continue sinning with plans of later repentance.

Disclaimer: If you are mormon, or a strange non-denominational christian who doesn't believe Jesus is the only way to salvation and the only other alternative to jesus is hell, my logic does not apply to you, so I don't want to hear about how your New Age god can stand up to this.

ahahahahhaha after a couple weeks of sitting back and listening, I finally spoke up.

The topic was salvation, and how we can achieve it.
I just had to stop my pastor 5 minutes in when I heard him say "God wants everyone to be saved an have salvation" and I knew it was now or never.

Me: Does god want everyone to be saved?
Pastor: Yes.
Me: Can we assume God is omnipotent and omniscient?
Pastor: Yes.
Me: Why did god invent a salvation method that he knew wouldn't save everyone, or ever most people? If he wants all people to be saved is it not in his omnipotent power to create a better salvation plan.
*slight pause*
Half the Room: free will
just as planned
Pastor: God gave you free will so you could choose.
Me: When god made you with that free will, even if it's your own personal type, he made it knowing whether it would ultimately choose to ignore or embrace salvation.
4 other people: Yeah.... I always wondered about that / How can that be?

we spent the rest of our class talking about predetermination vs. free will, as opposed to what was planned. I was able to debunk in plain english coutner arguments that came and they actually LISTENED, a breath of fresh air from here where when you finally get to the meat of the issue and make your point, the other side goes "la la la, Oh look viet-X posted something stupid! I'll just respond to that and ignore the current point, it's much easier!"

Anyways I knew I had really accomplished something when some of the people who weren't participating could only say "You know, I just try not to think about all that stuff, it just doesn't make sense to me" or "if I dwelled on that forever I wouldn't get anything done and I wouldn't be a good christian"
but the pastor was the best "You know, I just don't know the answers to those questions and I definitely wasn't prepared. I really just got to believe that we aren't wired to understand why that is the way it is." and then he said something like "But don't worry, when we get to heaven It'll all make sense." and finally one of the most selfish things I have ever "well gang, all I know deep down in my heart of hearts, is that I'm Saved. I know that I have been saved and given ever lasting life in jesus, and I am sooooooo grateful for that." To which I though to myself "Oh, well good for YOU, but what about the rest of us?"

Ha, nice. I'm glad you were able to create a platform for debate rather than being ushered out like a heckler. After all the debates I've had with religious folk, I've come to the conclusion that most of them don't fully understand their religion, even if they've been a member for their whole lives. However, it's rather easy to overlook contradictions and gray areas when you sincerely believe that the almighty master of the universe is pulling strings for you to get what you want. It almost reminds me of mafia children. Daddy can get so much more of what he wants than the other kids' daddies. I'd rather just have my cake and eat it too rather than ask where the cake comes from. Of course, ironically, mafia children get more of what they ask for than most devout Christians any day.

ugh I hate mafia kids. I one 'supposed' one sitting behind me all through Latin II and he just would not shut up about how rich he was and how much shit he gets. If he wasn't so god dam ugly looking I probably would him killed him just thinking about how unfair my life is compared to his.

Yeah, if you had asked that in Seminary you woulda gotten owned It's funny how many holes there are in many other Christian religion's gospels.

To be fair though, they can own you guys. And the only reason mormons are exempt is because you only go to hell if you want to.

It's funny how many holes there are in Mormanism, too.

I find it amusing no one seems to believe that their own beliefs are flawed.

Point one out plz


Well, you don't really go to Hell, everyone returns to heaven, but they are separated into different degrees of glory.

Just wondering, but what gives you people the impression that just because you've raised questions and issues which people aren't really sure of automatically means a "win" for you?

Surely when people, that actually care about what they believe in, are unsure of something their instinct is to research such controversial topics. There are hundreds of thousands of sources and articles/books which give their take on said issues, so what if instead of deciding to abandon their religion due to their lack of understanding it, they end up learning and understanding even more about their religion, thus becoming even stronger followers in their doctrines? Had such questions or issues never been brought up, it's possible that these guys would forever never know about these issues. Would you still call that "mission accomplished?"

IMO it is great that people bring such issues up, because it inclines people to have a a better and more educated understanding about their beliefs or one's religion. Not everyone will have the same beliefs after doing so, but this will at least reduce the amount of unnecessary flare between the two sides. But the main problem behind all this is that there are just too many "christians" who just don't care about clarifying these issues and instead proceed on with their "christian" lives.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Feb 15 2009, 4:55 am by MillenniumArmy.

Any law created by man is fallacious when putting them up against The Laws of Creation and The Laws of Nature.

Who gives man the right to claim a day as 'holy'? Does the bird 'rest' on this 'sabbath day'? Does the bear stop his hunt on this 'sabbath day'? Does nature stop doing everything it does on this 'sabbath day'?

Hence, any law created by man is fallacious when putting them up against The Laws of Creation and The Laws of Nature for both never cease to exist, or even 'rest' on 'sabbath days'.

Good try though.