Staredit Network > Forums > SC1 UMS Mapmaking Assistance > Topic: unbreakable map protector
unbreakable map protector
Sep 27 2008, 3:48 pm
By: SiberianTiger  

Sep 27 2008, 3:48 pm SiberianTiger Post #1



Hi, my little brother is the original creator of Custom Hero Wars & the official version of the Final version is hosted here by staredit.net

We recently discovered that even the Final version has been hacked & that it's been circulated under the same name.

So, I tried to make Custom Hero Wars Locked with the most powerful protector on the web (i.e. Uberation 3, Pro Edit, toGikon'sShield, etc) & they all failed against Unused Protector 2 Final.

I am also working on a new map called combat algorithm, which will be a combination of Custom Hero Wars & storm the fort, & I'm considering hyper triggering.

I don't want some complete losers to take these maps and ruin them after I've made them with hard work.

Thanks.



None.

Sep 27 2008, 4:38 pm Falkoner Post #2



That's the idea of the unprotector... To not be stopped... There are ways of making your map more difficult to edit, and many compressors, such as TinyMap, will lock, and they make it extremely annoying to edit (deletes location names, etc) but if SC can open it, there's always a way to remake it into an editable map. Just hope no one steals it.

Quote
I am also working on a new map called combat algorithm, which will be a combination of Custom Hero Wars & storm the fort, & I'm considering hyper triggering.

Sounds fun, and you definitely want hypertriggers... I don't think you realize what they are based on how you referred to them, here's a tutorial on them: http://Falkoner.CoW.GooglePages.com/Hyper_Triggers.html

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Sep 27 2008, 9:04 pm by Falkoner.



None.

Sep 27 2008, 5:37 pm Craftstar2 Post #3



What map that takes more than 1 hour to make doesn't have hyper triggers? -.-



None.

Sep 27 2008, 5:49 pm FoxWolf1 Post #4



Quote from Craftstar2
What map that takes more than 1 hour to make doesn't have hyper triggers? -.-

There are maps with hundreds or even thousands of triggers that don't use hyper triggers. Some were made before hyper triggers were commonly used; others simply had no need for them when increasing the trigger cycle rate would complicate their timing systems. Still other maps on the very high complexity side of things (i.e. several thousand triggers) actually can't use hypers, because they have so many repeating triggers that the faster cycle rate causes massive amounts of lag.

Just because a certain way of doing things is regarded as the "pro" way to do things doesn't mean it's the right way in every situation. Sometimes simpler solutions are quicker and more elegant, and can even work better.



None.

Sep 27 2008, 6:17 pm Biophysicist Post #5



You know, if you are really clever, you might be able to engineer bugs into the map that only occour if a certain value is changed. That way, if anyone changes that value, the map won't work, effectivly protecting it.

eg. If you do that trick where you immobilize a unit by moving it to unwalkable terrain, place the location over a few squared of unwalkable terrain that spell your name in the middle of walkable terrain. If someone edits that, the unit will teleport rather than being immobilized. This counts on the person not realising why you have the location over that terrain, of course, so it won't stop experiened mappers, but I doubt to many experianced mappers will be stealing maps anyway.



None.

Sep 27 2008, 6:19 pm Fwop_ Post #6



Having hyper triggers makes it easier on the players. It is so frustrating to see things take 2 seconds after you wanted it to happen. When I put my civilian on that beacon or I train that marine for a spell, I want those triggers to run as quickly as possible.

I've not heard of any "very high" complex triggering that doesn't use hypers. They simply make trigger systems more efficient and reliable. Could you please show me an example of a situation in which the lack of hyper triggers would be a better choice? I personally couldn't think of any.

On topic: Don't stress over not finding a good protector. Just make sure you upload the map here and we will all know who you are. If someone does edit your map, you can always just host the correct version or update the map.



None.

Sep 27 2008, 7:54 pm FoxWolf1 Post #7



Lack of hyper triggers can be useful in both low and high complexity situations. If you're making a simple map, especially mass or tug-o'-war type games, not having hyper triggers means that your repeated spawn and order actions happen at a decent speed without needing a timing system of any kind. With hyper triggers, you'll need to use a timer of some sort to regulate the unit spawns and constant orders. For high-complexity situations, the problem with hyper triggers is that too many repeating triggers at too high a cycle rate causes lag. Sometimes you can get away with using semi-hyper-triggers (i.e. wait > 0) to reduce the cycle rate, as in the case of Astrogears; other times, there are simply too many repeating triggers for SC to handle any increase in cycle rate without lag, as happened with A Grave Invasion.

These are only the purely conceptual reasons not to use hyper triggers. There are practical reasons as well: for instance, you might want to be able to port systems from older maps without having to make them hyper-trigger compatible.



None.

Sep 27 2008, 8:28 pm Fwop_ Post #8



I can understand slowing down your hypers, but completely leaving them out? It just seems like laziness when you don't want to add them because you don't want to do a timer of some sort (not to mention said timer can be adjusted to something other than intervals of two seconds). Maybe it's just me, though, but I can't stand it when maps don't have hyper triggers.



None.

Sep 27 2008, 8:31 pm Demented Shaman Post #9



No protector can beat the best unprotection out there. Just quit mapmaking and leave. Don't even map again.



None.

Sep 27 2008, 9:04 pm Falkoner Post #10



Quote
I've not heard of any "very high" complex triggering that doesn't use hypers. They simply make trigger systems more efficient and reliable. Could you please show me an example of a situation in which the lack of hyper triggers would be a better choice? I personally couldn't think of any.

I know that Tuxlar slowed his down for AstroGears in order to create less lag, as you said, you understand that. Really, unless you have so many triggers that you need it to be that slow, the only reason people ever do it is because when they start they decide not to use them, and when they suddenly decide they might want them, it's a bit too late to edit all your other triggers to work properly with hypertriggers.



None.

Sep 29 2008, 11:06 pm SiberianTiger Post #11



Quote from FoxWolf1
There are maps with hundreds or even thousands of triggers that don't use hyper triggers. Some were made before hyper triggers were commonly used; others simply had no need for them when increasing the trigger cycle rate would complicate their timing systems. Still other maps on the very high complexity side of things (i.e. several thousand triggers) actually can't use hypers, because they have so many repeating triggers that the faster cycle rate causes massive amounts of lag.

Just because a certain way of doing things is regarded as the "pro" way to do things doesn't mean it's the right way in every situation. Sometimes simpler solutions are quicker and more elegant, and can even work better.

Really? Thanks a lot for this advice. : )

Quote from Fwop_
On topic: Don't stress over not finding a good protector. Just make sure you upload the map here and we will all know who you are. If someone does edit your map, you can always just host the correct version or update the map.

Another good point. Except... Custom Hero wars Final currently has only 4 downloads. oh well

Quote from Falkoner
the only reason people ever do it is because when they start they decide not to use them, and when they suddenly decide they might want them, it's a bit too late to edit all your other triggers to work properly with hypertriggers.

Umm, so if I programmed my map without hyper trigger so far (i.e. shop options, hero picks, troops upgrade, death, etc.) it's too late for me to use hyper trigger for the weapons (i.e. spell) ?

Thanks guys. : )



None.

Sep 29 2008, 11:26 pm Fwop_ Post #12



Quote from name:cosmicagent
[quote=name:FoxWolf1]Umm, so if I programmed my map without hyper trigger so far (i.e. shop options, hero picks, troops upgrade, death, etc.) it's too late for me to use hyper trigger for the weapons (i.e. spell) ?

Not necessarily. If you have triggers with waits or some sort of timer based on trigger loops, you'll have to go over those triggers and make sure they run properly with hypers.



None.

Sep 30 2008, 6:26 pm FoxWolf1 Post #13



Quote from Fwop_
Quote from name:cosmicagent
Umm, so if I programmed my map without hyper trigger so far (i.e. shop options, hero picks, troops upgrade, death, etc.) it's too late for me to use hyper trigger for the weapons (i.e. spell) ?

Not necessarily. If you have triggers with waits or some sort of timer based on trigger loops, you'll have to go over those triggers and make sure they run properly with hypers.

There could be other issues, too, depending on how your shops and such are set up. For instance, if you have a system where the same beacon can be used to purchase different things depending on how many currency units are brought there, hyper triggers would require the player to be impossibly precise. The trigger will fire almost right away when the smaller number of units are brought there, before any more units can be put on to stop the smaller purchase from happening and/or trigger the larger purchase. If nothing in your current systems is sensitive to time or responsiveness, though, you should be okay to put them in (if necessary).



None.

Sep 30 2008, 7:40 pm lil-Inferno Post #14

Just here for the pie

I don't see your problem unless you're worried about map theft. I make all of my (DISCLAIMER: All of my maps are unfinished) maps open source.




Sep 30 2008, 11:58 pm Falkoner Post #15



Quote
Umm, so if I programmed my map without hyper trigger so far (i.e. shop options, hero picks, troops upgrade, death, etc.) it's too late for me to use hyper trigger for the weapons (i.e. spell) ?

Thanks guys. : )

Haha, lemme tell you a little story:
When I started making Random Quest RPG, I was still a bit of a map making nub, so I figured, I didn't need hypertriggers, and I wanted to use waits, and at the same time, I discovered Cross-player hypertriggers, so I could easily turn them on and off at will, so I figured that if I had any spells that required hypertriggers, I'd just turn them on, and turn them off when I'm done. Long story short, I found that when I turned on the hypertriggers for some spells, it would cause other sections of my map to function improperly, while it worked once I turned them back off, it was still a flaw, and I'm sure that's one of the many reasons I never finished that map.

Basically, you may not be totally screwed, however, in the future, I would always start with hypertriggers, because unless you are one of those rare exceptions, they only help.



None.

Oct 5 2008, 10:24 am Zhuinden Post #16



If CHW Final didn't suck, people wouldn't want to edit it. Also, Unused Unprotector cannot be stopped by any protector at all. Not even by Special, nor Shadow. Nothing.

I think it reads the map like Starcraft, and rewrites it from scratch. If UU2 couldn't read it, Starcraft wouldn't be able to, either.



None.

Options
  Back to forum
Please log in to reply to this topic or to report it.
Members in this topic: None.
[12:46 pm]
razorback9423 -- :wob: KANDA FOREVER!
[2019-9-20. : 2:41 pm]
razorback9423 -- NudeRaider
NudeRaider shouted: MTiger156 power over:wob:ing?
No, POWER UNDER :wob: ing!
[2019-9-20. : 12:53 pm]
NudeRaider -- MTiger156
MTiger156 shouted: Power over:wob:ing
power over:wob:ing?
[2019-9-20. : 12:27 pm]
MTiger156 -- crap...
[2019-9-20. : 12:27 pm]
MTiger156 -- Power over:wob:ing
[2019-9-20. : 11:50 am]
UEDCommander -- WARNING: Unit Unplaceable! (u) (69, 69)
[2019-9-20. : 9:26 am]
lil-Inferno -- :wob:
[2019-9-20. : 8:25 am]
Black_Overseer -- razorback9423
razorback9423 shouted: WARNING: Unit Unplaceable! (Aldaris) (1656,2996)
You have no power here, Gandalf the Grey.
[2019-9-20. : 5:43 am]
razorback9423 -- WARNING: Unit Unplaceable! (Aldaris) (1656,2996)
[2019-9-20. : 5:27 am]
razorback9423 -- stop
Please log in to shout.


Members Online: Roy, luratosqori536, Neiv, suicosd, Wing Zero