Staredit Network > Forums > SC1 Melee Discussion & Strategy > Topic: Optimal Expansion Time?
Optimal Expansion Time?
Sep 8 2008, 10:18 pm
By: A_of-s_t  

Sep 8 2008, 10:18 pm A_of-s_t Post #1

aka idmontie

WHat do you meleers think the optimal time for a Terran player to expand is?



Personal GitHub
Starcraft GitHub Organization - Feel free to request member status!
TwitchTV

Sep 8 2008, 10:55 pm 49281358723941702706 Post #2



When you have the advantage.



None.

Sep 8 2008, 10:57 pm Demented Shaman Post #3



I heard fast expo has become a popular build.



None.

Sep 9 2008, 12:43 am Symmetry Post #4

Dungeon Master

Depends on MU, scouting, etc.



:voy: :jaff: :voy: :jaff:

Sep 9 2008, 4:14 pm BeDazed Post #5



You should just read through what the tutorials on SEN has to say and post here later. That should help? (Everything you have in question.)



None.

Sep 12 2008, 2:20 am Koltz Post #6



when ur army > his
when u pressure/harass/push
when u can do it safely



None.

Sep 12 2008, 1:11 pm Kaiser-NP- Post #7



Python is the most popular map for good players currently.

Currently, on maps like python, the stadard build for protoss is a fast expansion. Protoss players make a couple cannons at their expo, expansion, before making the nexus. (Python is a large map). Also, it is easy to take expos on Python since their are so many and because it is so large. The standard rule is to throw down three gateways for each expo you have. (This is because you make teched units on python). If you scout a fast expansion or x amount of hatcheries you will know what they are going. If the terran goes F.E. you will know you won't need as many cannons. If the z throws down 3 hatches, you will know he is going muta. If the z throws down 4, you will know he is going Hydralisks.

Zerg players have no disadvantage by making hatcheries. (T and P get -400 each one, while Z players need them to pump units) A z players need 4 hatcheries if their going hydras, and they need 3 hatcheries if they are going mutalisks. The normal spots to put the hatchs are 1st one at the closest expo spot, 2nd one on bottle, and third (if you decide to go hydras, on your first base. If you are z, and scout that the t or p is going fast expansion you will know you don't need as many sukens to stop their push.

Terran players can play better than P or Z on having only 1 mineral source. (They can have 6 or more factories pushing vultures, etc.) Also, it is normally a good idea to expo when you see your opponents are expoing. (You make a Command Center and float it to the expo spot.)

Finally, players should have a worker scouting the 10 or so potential expos every so often. This will enable you to take them, or know when you should have another. Hope I was helpful.



None.

Sep 12 2008, 1:20 pm BeDazed Post #8



Quote
Python is the most popular map for good players currently.

Currently, on maps like python, the stadard build for protoss is a fast expansion. Protoss players make a couple cannons at their expo, expansion, before making the nexus. (Python is a large map). Also, it is easy to take expos on Python since their are so many and because it is so large. The standard rule is to throw down three gateways for each expo you have. (This is because you make teched units on python). If you scout a fast expansion or x amount of hatcheries you will know what they are going. If the terran goes F.E. you will know you won't need as many cannons. If the z throws down 3 hatches, you will know he is going muta. If the z throws down 4, you will know he is going Hydralisks.

Zerg players have no disadvantage by making hatcheries. (T and P get -400 each one, while Z players need them to pump units) A z players need 4 hatcheries if their going hydras, and they need 3 hatcheries if they are going mutalisks. The normal spots to put the hatchs are 1st one at the closest expo spot, 2nd one on bottle, and third (if you decide to go hydras, on your first base. If you are z, and scout that the t or p is going fast expansion you will know you don't need as many sukens to stop their push.

Terran players can play better than P or Z on having only 1 mineral source. (They can have 6 or more factories pushing vultures, etc.) Also, it is normally a good idea to expo when you see your opponents are expoing. (You make a Command Center and float it to the expo spot.)

Finally, players should have a worker scouting the 10 or so potential expos every so often. This will enable you to take them, or know when you should have another. Hope I was helpful.
This is BS. It's just better to read the god damn flippin tutorials on SEN or ask on www.teamliquid.net or www.gosugamers.com from atleast B+ players.



None.

Sep 12 2008, 10:10 pm ClansAreForGays Post #9



Quote from Kaiser-NP-
Hope I was helpful.
Anything but.




Sep 12 2008, 10:17 pm Moose Post #10



Quote from A_of-s_t
WHat do you meleers think the optimal time for a Terran player to expand is?
Quote from Kaiser-NP-
Currently, on maps like python, the stadard build for protoss is a fast expansion. Protoss players make a couple cannons at their expo, expansion, before making the nexus. (Python is a large map). Also, it is easy to take expos on Python since their are so many and because it is so large. The standard rule is to throw down three gateways for each expo you have. (This is because you make teched units on python). If you scout a fast expansion or x amount of hatcheries you will know what they are going. If the terran goes F.E. you will know you won't need as many cannons. If the z throws down 3 hatches, you will know he is going muta. If the z throws down 4, you will know he is going Hydralisks.

Zerg players have no disadvantage by making hatcheries. (T and P get -400 each one, while Z players need them to pump units) A z players need 4 hatcheries if their going hydras, and they need 3 hatcheries if they are going mutalisks. The normal spots to put the hatchs are 1st one at the closest expo spot, 2nd one on bottle, and third (if you decide to go hydras, on your first base. If you are z, and scout that the t or p is going fast expansion you will know you don't need as many sukens to stop their push.

Terran players can play better than P or Z on having only 1 mineral source. (They can have 6 or more factories pushing vultures, etc.) Also, it is normally a good idea to expo when you see your opponents are expoing. (You make a Command Center and float it to the expo spot.)

Finally, players should have a worker scouting the 10 or so potential expos every so often. This will enable you to take them, or know when you should have another. Hope I was helpful.





Sep 22 2008, 2:10 am JaBoK Post #11



A terran player should expand when he feels that he is able to adequately protect his investment. Since a terran army is stronger on the defensive than it is on the offensive, when you are able to get some tanks and mines and missile turrets down by your nat, you should do so, moving your defensive line up to protect your new command center. If a protoss player is able to harass effectively and halt your advance, then use a tank push to force him out of the clogged up area around your nat so that you can occupy it.

Against zerg, don't expand until you have the defenses to beat his entire army if he attacks your natural. Same thing, really, the principle is that if you expand and his army can attack and win, then you will most likely lose the game.



None.

Sep 23 2008, 5:41 pm BeDazed Post #12



Quote
A terran player should expand when he feels that he is able to adequately protect his investment. Since a terran army is stronger on the defensive than it is on the offensive, when you are able to get some tanks and mines and missile turrets down by your nat, you should do so, moving your defensive line up to protect your new command center. If a protoss player is able to harass effectively and halt your advance, then use a tank push to force him out of the clogged up area around your nat so that you can occupy it.

Against zerg, don't expand until you have the defenses to beat his entire army if he attacks your natural. Same thing, really, the principle is that if you expand and his army can attack and win, then you will most likely lose the game.
Something that comes from one who has no experience in any kind of competitive melee- should just go ignored. Instead READ THE TUTORIALS BEFORE YOU EVEN SAY A THING HERE ABOUT MELEE. Theres something I hate about misleading information.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Sep 24 2008, 6:26 am by Mini Moose 2707. Reason: Must we swear?



None.

Sep 25 2008, 5:35 pm ClansAreForGays Post #13



Fuck expansion, go for broke.




Sep 25 2008, 11:09 pm BeDazed Post #14



Quote
Fuck expansion, go for broke.
He says this even after getting kapwnt so many times. Its almost funny.



None.

Sep 28 2008, 12:15 am ClansAreForGays Post #15



I have a new strategy now giving me a positive win ratio. Still terran. I pretty much just took you're advice about how if I'm dead set on massing marines, I might as well focus more on acad/ups than super early tank push. Turns out I can handle their 6 sunks w/o tanks.

I would also like a rm.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Sep 28 2008, 2:22 am by ClansAreForGays.




Sep 28 2008, 7:50 am BeDazed Post #16



You put yourself too high for how lowly you are. Its not even funny when you play. Its plain pathetic. If you can, just stick to temple siege and not melee.

Oh yeah, Its also because your ego is bigger than highly accepted strategies as it is. You seem to follow your own logic- which is quite inefficient in Starcraft rather than those who have an efficient one. Don't go over your league unless you want to learn. Playing you would degrade my skills quadrafold.



None.

Sep 29 2008, 5:03 am ClansAreForGays Post #17



You're really pathetic Dazed and your mentality seriously disappoints me. It would be obvious to anyone with any level of humor or half a brain to understand that I actually am not trying to be a pro meleer. This might come as a shock to you, but I DON'T WANT TO PLAY PROFESSIONAL VIDEO GAMES ON KOREAN TV. The futuristic team space suits you get to wear and the shitty pop-punk-emo background music is very tempting, but it's not my dish. I know reality might be very different for you in Korea, but here in America, when someone says "I'm probably like the best sc player ever" they don't actually mean it. Especially when that person is most known for being anything but serious.

See, I thought it was funny that I found a little strategy with terran that actually involved using barracks for something more than cliff scouting for tanks. The funny thing about it was that it differed so much for the same exact thing every Terran was traditionally supposed to do. Maybe in Korea 90's video games are artifacts of honor and respect, but to everyone else it's just a game to experiment with. If every game PvT are doing the same things, I like to take advantage of that and just throw a wrench in it with something they won't be ready for. It really gets me hard when I hear an ob scolding his clan mate on what he actually lost to, or the obs abandoning ac and just loling at what just happened. Sure I lose half my games, but 1 epic lulz win is easily worth 5 meaningless loses(outside of your DMZ).

Just because I don't use JK LOL like it's a fucking period like every other person you probably communicate with, doesn't mean I'm trying to get into a team sponsored by Sony. So I'll continue playing "1v1 python play/obs" in my spare time even if it's just to QQ losers like you.




Sep 29 2008, 12:09 pm BeDazed Post #18



I see a rant that made no sense to me whatsoever. Did that make you feel better? Or are you just lost to a point that you'll talk even if you don't understand anything?



None.

Sep 29 2008, 4:46 pm ClansAreForGays Post #19



speechless I see.




Sep 29 2008, 5:03 pm BeDazed Post #20



No it just hit me in the head. You know not even the basic, and yet you rant how good you are. And then you say you don't want to get good- and then when I say something about it, you overexaggerate it to a point where it makes no sense at all. And then you start putting other things to relation where it has no relevence. You also try to rant about things you don't have even the speck of understanding. And then you try to back your argument by trying to make your strategy 'creative'- if something everyone did once is very creative. You also make yourself try to look 'cool' as you probably would've thought in your head by trying to look you didn't care. Now if you really didn't, why check here so often?



None.

Options
  Back to forum
Please log in to reply to this topic or to report it.
Members in this topic: None.
[03:36 pm]
Oh_Man -- a program called mapstats I think it's on here to DL
[02:39 pm]
GGmano -- so theres a limit on total triggers on around 80k?
[02:38 pm]
GGmano -- thanks for info anyway
[02:38 pm]
GGmano -- how did you found that out ohh man?
[02:15 pm]
Oh_Man -- mapstats says 80k triggers
[2022-7-02. : 9:37 pm]
GGmano -- maybe its not about the size i guess since its now above 6000 and was saved
[2022-7-02. : 9:05 pm]
GGmano -- just seems like 6000kb is an obstacle not sure
[2022-7-02. : 9:05 pm]
GGmano -- idk it could also be about the map size its like above 6k kb map wont be saved,, 6000kb of triggers no sounds im aware sounds can go beyond that size
[2022-7-02. : 8:51 pm]
GGmano -- heres link for the new release http://www.staredit.net/topic/18475/#1
[2022-7-02. : 8:51 pm]
GGmano -- i now released it after deleting triggers 3 times sadly
Please log in to shout.


Members Online: Moose, GGmano, Roy, jun3hong