[quote=name:EcHo]KrayZee learn to read. I said either president. I see both of them as wrongful presidential canidates. And I don't discriminate people by religion nor am I republican. He isn't muslim but his father was Muslim. And I'm not ignoring historical facts, you're just posting nonsense. And also, North Korean isn't communist. By far all your comments has failed so I'm going to ignore them now.[/quote] Ok this hit my alarm button... First let me get my side cleared I guess. I am Independent so don't do oh your democrat or republican that's why you saying that. Anyways,You yourself are saying Obama is not muslim right? Then you go off and say however,his father is... So what his father is not running for president and not telling Obama what to do. Now there are things I do find wrong with sides of course,but god dang echo saying something like that is like saying,''Oh that women has a purple friend she must date purple people''.(if anyone here is purple no racism is meant)

Quote from [EcHo]:]

KrayZee learn to read. I said either president. I see both of them as wrongful presidential canidates. And I don't discriminate people by religion nor am I republican. He isn't muslim but his father was Muslim. And I'm not ignoring historical facts, you're just posting nonsense. And also, North Korean isn't communist. By far all your comments has failed so I'm going to ignore them now.

Ok this hit my alarm button...
First let me get my side cleared I guess.
I am Independent so don't do oh your democrat or republican that's why you saying that.

Anyways,You yourself are saying Obama is not muslim right?
Then you go off and say however,his father is...
So what his father is not running for president and not telling Obama what to do.

Now there are things I do find wrong with sides of course,but god dang echo saying something like that is like saying,''Oh that women has a purple friend she must date purple people''.(if anyone here is purple no racism is meant)

[quote=name:Falkoner][quote]Yes, that picture is accurate. Bill Clinton's projected economic policies, which would have been continued if Al Gore was in office, projected a trillion dollar surplus in under ten years. In practise, Liberal economics move toward a long term surplus overall while Conservative economics lead to an immediate and indefinite deficit, as shown by Hoover and the New Deal, for instance.[/quote] Yeah, but did Clinton predict an attack on the US?[/quote] I don't see how that would affect our economy. Al Gore wouldn't have ignored the NUMEROUS threats about 9/11 coming from US Intelligence sources regarding the details of the attack and the terrorists who executed the attack; Gore wouldn't have started a superfluous war which had done nothing to us and had a minimal terrorist population before invasion.

Quote from Falkoner

Quote

Yes, that picture is accurate. Bill Clinton's projected economic policies, which would have been continued if Al Gore was in office, projected a trillion dollar surplus in under ten years. In practise, Liberal economics move toward a long term surplus overall while Conservative economics lead to an immediate and indefinite deficit, as shown by Hoover and the New Deal, for instance.

Yeah, but did Clinton predict an attack on the US?

I don't see how that would affect our economy. Al Gore wouldn't have ignored the NUMEROUS threats about 9/11 coming from US Intelligence sources regarding the details of the attack and the terrorists who executed the attack; Gore wouldn't have started a superfluous war which had done nothing to us and had a minimal terrorist population before invasion.

[quote=name:Twitch][quote=name:EcHo]KrayZee learn to read. I said either president. I see both of them as wrongful presidential canidates. And I don't discriminate people by religion nor am I republican. He isn't muslim but his father was Muslim. And I'm not ignoring historical facts, you're just posting nonsense. And also, North Korean isn't communist. By far all your comments has failed so I'm going to ignore them now.[/quote] Ok this hit my alarm button... First let me get my side cleared I guess. I am Independent so don't do oh your democrat or republican that's why you saying that. Anyways,You yourself are saying Obama is not muslim right? Then you go off and say however,his father is... So what his father is not running for president and not telling Obama what to do. Now there are things I do find wrong with sides of course,but god dang echo saying something like that is like saying,''Oh that women has a purple friend she must date purple people''.(if anyone here is purple no racism is meant)[/quote] Uhh.. Twitch, he didn't say that was why he didn't like Obama, I don't think he ever actually said why he didn't like Obama. He even said that he didn't discriminate based on religion, so you didn't really need to add the last bit either. Also, everything I have against Bush has already been said (Okay, not by KrayZee, but by Hercanic), I don't really feel I need to add anything. It's not that I really hate Bush, he's just a mediocre president. For the situation he's gotten us into, we don't need a mediocre president. Also, I think it's kinda funny that if Bush hadn't taken his second term in office, he probably would have gone down as one of the U.S.A's great president.

Quote from Oo.Twitch.oO

Quote from [EcHo]:]

KrayZee learn to read. I said either president. I see both of them as wrongful presidential canidates. And I don't discriminate people by religion nor am I republican. He isn't muslim but his father was Muslim. And I'm not ignoring historical facts, you're just posting nonsense. And also, North Korean isn't communist. By far all your comments has failed so I'm going to ignore them now.

Ok this hit my alarm button...
First let me get my side cleared I guess.
I am Independent so don't do oh your democrat or republican that's why you saying that.

Anyways,You yourself are saying Obama is not muslim right?
Then you go off and say however,his father is...
So what his father is not running for president and not telling Obama what to do.

Now there are things I do find wrong with sides of course,but god dang echo saying something like that is like saying,''Oh that women has a purple friend she must date purple people''.(if anyone here is purple no racism is meant)

Uhh.. Twitch, he didn't say that was why he didn't like Obama, I don't think he ever actually said why he didn't like Obama. He even said that he didn't discriminate based on religion, so you didn't really need to add the last bit either.

Also, everything I have against Bush has already been said (Okay, not by KrayZee, but by Hercanic), I don't really feel I need to add anything. It's not that I really hate Bush, he's just a mediocre president. For the situation he's gotten us into, we don't need a mediocre president.

Also, I think it's kinda funny that if Bush hadn't taken his second term in office, he probably would have gone down as one of the U.S.A's great president.

Oh this reminds me. EcHo, I bet you have no idea what the religion of Muslim is about. Although Osama Bin Laden thinks what he is doing is part of the Qur'an, technically he is going against his beliefs. You should learn it from a seventh grade history class. :-_-: And I heavily doubt that Barack's father will ever, ever expects Barack to bring down the United States. Secondly, with him being born in Kenya, Africa, there are no relations of against the United States. Despite him being dead, with a Muslim belief doesn't mean the democratic nominee Obama will harm the United States. And I have heard that Muslim respects other religions and along with Atheism. Just a two cent.

Oh this reminds me. EcHo, I bet you have no idea what the religion of Muslim is about. Although Osama Bin Laden thinks what he is doing is part of the Qur'an, technically he is going against his beliefs. You should learn it from a seventh grade history class.

And I heavily doubt that Barack's father will ever, ever expects Barack to bring down the United States. Secondly, with him being born in Kenya, Africa, there are no relations of against the United States. Despite him being dead, with a Muslim belief doesn't mean the democratic nominee Obama will harm the United States. And I have heard that Muslim respects other religions and along with Atheism.

Just a two cent.

[quote]I don't see how that would affect our economy. Al Gore wouldn't have ignored the NUMEROUS threats about 9/11 coming from US Intelligence sources regarding the details of the attack and the terrorists who executed the attack; Gore wouldn't have started a superfluous war which had done nothing to us and had a minimal terrorist population before invasion.[/quote] Where are you getting this? Also, if the US hadn't attacked, who's to say we wouldn't have been hit again?

Quote

I don't see how that would affect our economy. Al Gore wouldn't have ignored the NUMEROUS threats about 9/11 coming from US Intelligence sources regarding the details of the attack and the terrorists who executed the attack; Gore wouldn't have started a superfluous war which had done nothing to us and had a minimal terrorist population before invasion.

Where are you getting this?

Also, if the US hadn't attacked, who's to say we wouldn't have been hit again?

Twitch, Okay? What does that have to do with anything that I said? KrayZee, Yes I do know what Islam is and the studies of it. And no, not all schools have the same history system. But I'm not ignorant and think that the Islam belief system is bad. Oh, and Osama Bin laden, glad you brought it up. He is doing Jihad, which is part of the Islamic culture. And also, Muslim isn't a religion. Just my two cents.

Twitch, Okay? What does that have to do with anything that I said?

KrayZee, Yes I do know what Islam is and the studies of it. And no, not all schools have the same history system. But I'm not ignorant and think that the Islam belief system is bad. Oh, and Osama Bin laden, glad you brought it up. He is doing Jihad, which is part of the Islamic culture. And also, Muslim isn't a religion.

Just my two cents.

[quote=name:EcHo]Twitch, Okay? What does that have to do with anything that I said? KrayZee, Yes I do know what Islam is and the studies of it. And no, not all schools have the same history system. But I'm not ignorant and think that the Islam belief system is bad. Oh, and Osama Bin laden, glad you brought it up. He is doing Jihad, which is part of the Islamic culture. And also, Muslim isn't a religion. Just my two cents.[/quote] LOL EcHo you are like the one person who cannot say "no, not all schools have the same history system." because no child left behind was suppose to raise the standards of schools and you yourself think NCLB is a great program. Are you now saying NCLB is not a great program? Because you should have learned it because of the NCLB act :lol:

Quote from [EcHo]:]

Twitch, Okay? What does that have to do with anything that I said?

KrayZee, Yes I do know what Islam is and the studies of it. And no, not all schools have the same history system. But I'm not ignorant and think that the Islam belief system is bad. Oh, and Osama Bin laden, glad you brought it up. He is doing Jihad, which is part of the Islamic culture. And also, Muslim isn't a religion.

Just my two cents.

LOL EcHo you are like the one person who cannot say "no, not all schools have the same history system." because no child left behind was suppose to raise the standards of schools and you yourself think NCLB is a great program. Are you now saying NCLB is not a great program? Because you should have learned it because of the NCLB act

"LOL MASTERJOHNNY" not having the same history system doesn't mean shit. My 7th grade History class was about New York history. I learned about the Quran in World history in 9th grade. Thanks.

"LOL MASTERJOHNNY" not having the same history system doesn't mean shit. My 7th grade History class was about New York history. I learned about the Quran in World history in 9th grade. Thanks.

[quote=name:EcHo]"LOL MASTERJOHNNY" not having the same history system doesn't mean shit. My 7th grade History class was about New York history. I learned about the Quran in World history in 9th grade. Thanks.[/quote] I don't want to sound offensive but you sound like your school is 2 years behind my school..Showing that NCLB doesn't work? 9th grade is like geometry/algebra2 (I hope you took either of those classes in 9th grade)

Quote from [EcHo]:]

"LOL MASTERJOHNNY" not having the same history system doesn't mean shit. My 7th grade History class was about New York history. I learned about the Quran in World history in 9th grade. Thanks.

I don't want to sound offensive but you sound like your school is 2 years behind my school..Showing that NCLB doesn't work? 9th grade is like geometry/algebra2 (I hope you took either of those classes in 9th grade)

Why are you bringin in math now? And just because I learned like 1 class differently doesn't mean my school is 2 years different. You need proof to state a statement instead of just assuming some shit.

Why are you bringin in math now? And just because I learned like 1 class differently doesn't mean my school is 2 years different. You need proof to state a statement instead of just assuming some shit.

This topic is about George W Bush. Not NCLB (whatever that is). Stop arguing "ad hominem (argument directed at the person). This is the error of attacking the character or motives of a person who has stated an idea, rather than the idea itself."

This topic is about George W Bush. Not NCLB (whatever that is). Stop arguing "ad hominem (argument directed at the person). This is the error of attacking the character or motives of a person who has stated an idea, rather than the idea itself."

[quote]George Bush, why do you hate him?[/quote] Hate is too strong a word, but I definitely do not like him. Have you read the [url=http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/05/20070509-12.html]Nation Security and Homeland Defense presidential directive[/url]? This says that he can basically declare martial law if there is ever a "catastrophic" disaster. It also states this regardless of location, that means it doesn't state that it has to be within the USA. It also doesn't define catastrophic. Then it goes on to say that if bush does declare martial law, he can rule it not fit for congress to meet. Then it states that congress cannot over turn what he did for 6 months. This is just one reason I dislike George Bush.

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George Bush, why do you hate him?

Hate is too strong a word, but I definitely do not like him.


Have you read the Nation Security and Homeland Defense presidential directive? This says that he can basically declare martial law if there is ever a "catastrophic" disaster. It also states this regardless of location, that means it doesn't state that it has to be within the USA. It also doesn't define catastrophic. Then it goes on to say that if bush does declare martial law, he can rule it not fit for congress to meet. Then it states that congress cannot over turn what he did for 6 months.

This is just one reason I dislike George Bush.

[quote=name:A_of-s_t]This topic is about George W Bush. Not NCLB (whatever that is). Stop arguing "ad hominem (argument directed at the person). This is the error of attacking the character or motives of a person who has stated an idea, rather than the idea itself."[/quote] NCLB is the No child left behind act that happened under the Bush administration. It was suppose to help schools and raise the school standards by setting high goals. Echo argues the program is great. (He hasn't actually said anything supporting his arguement) I was trying to show Echo as the product of the NCLB act.

Quote from A_of-s_t

This topic is about George W Bush. Not NCLB (whatever that is). Stop arguing "ad hominem (argument directed at the person). This is the error of attacking the character or motives of a person who has stated an idea, rather than the idea itself."

NCLB is the No child left behind act that happened under the Bush administration. It was suppose to help schools and raise the school standards by setting high goals. Echo argues the program is great. (He hasn't actually said anything supporting his arguement) I was trying to show Echo as the product of the NCLB act.

[quote=name:MasterJohnny][quote=name:A_of-s_t]This topic is about George W Bush. Not NCLB (whatever that is). Stop arguing "ad hominem (argument directed at the person). This is the error of attacking the character or motives of a person who has stated an idea, rather than the idea itself."[/quote] NCLB is the No child left behind act that happened under the Bush administration. It was suppose to help schools and raise the school standards by setting high goals. Echo argues the program is great. (He hasn't actually said anything supporting his arguement) I was trying to show Echo as the product of the NCLB act.[/quote] Ahh... The NCLB ACT (you should have been using "act" after every use), doesn't really work. Why should a student who can't read be in the same grade as me? It works on some levels, the act just needs to be seriously ammended.

Quote from O)MasterJohnny

Quote from A_of-s_t

This topic is about George W Bush. Not NCLB (whatever that is). Stop arguing "ad hominem (argument directed at the person). This is the error of attacking the character or motives of a person who has stated an idea, rather than the idea itself."

NCLB is the No child left behind act that happened under the Bush administration. It was suppose to help schools and raise the school standards by setting high goals. Echo argues the program is great. (He hasn't actually said anything supporting his arguement) I was trying to show Echo as the product of the NCLB act.

Ahh... The NCLB ACT (you should have been using "act" after every use), doesn't really work. Why should a student who can't read be in the same grade as me? It works on some levels, the act just needs to be seriously ammended.

[quote=name:MasterJohnny][quote=name:A_of-s_t]This topic is about George W Bush. Not NCLB (whatever that is). Stop arguing "ad hominem (argument directed at the person). This is the error of attacking the character or motives of a person who has stated an idea, rather than the idea itself."[/quote] NCLB is the No child left behind act that happened under the Bush administration. It was suppose to help schools and raise the school standards by setting high goals. Echo argues the program is great. (He hasn't actually said anything supporting his arguement) I was trying to show Echo as the product of the NCLB act.[/quote] Right, and you got my personal life involved by claiming my school was slow. That doesn't have anything to do with NCLB especially when school systems are obviously different in different states.

Quote from O)MasterJohnny

Quote from A_of-s_t

This topic is about George W Bush. Not NCLB (whatever that is). Stop arguing "ad hominem (argument directed at the person). This is the error of attacking the character or motives of a person who has stated an idea, rather than the idea itself."

NCLB is the No child left behind act that happened under the Bush administration. It was suppose to help schools and raise the school standards by setting high goals. Echo argues the program is great. (He hasn't actually said anything supporting his arguement) I was trying to show Echo as the product of the NCLB act.

Right, and you got my personal life involved by claiming my school was slow. That doesn't have anything to do with NCLB especially when school systems are obviously different in different states.

[quote=name:A_of-s_t][quote=name:MasterJohnny][quote=name:A_of-s_t]This topic is about George W Bush. Not NCLB (whatever that is). Stop arguing "ad hominem (argument directed at the person). This is the error of attacking the character or motives of a person who has stated an idea, rather than the idea itself."[/quote] NCLB is the No child left behind act that happened under the Bush administration. It was suppose to help schools and raise the school standards by setting high goals. Echo argues the program is great. (He hasn't actually said anything supporting his arguement) I was trying to show Echo as the product of the NCLB act.[/quote] Ahh... The NCLB ACT (you should have been using "act" after every use), doesn't really work. Why should a student who can't read be in the same grade as me? It works on some levels, the act just needs to be seriously ammended.[/quote] [quote=name:FatalException][quote=name:EcHo]Bush has done many great things for our country. One of them is the No Child Left Behind.[/quote] No Child Left Behind was a failure. I have [i]never[/i] heard anyone with a career in education agree with it. Firstly, it's wasting what little money schools have. States are spending $12 to $18 per student per year on testing alone (http://www.stateline.org/live/details/story?contentId=272382). That's enough to buy every student a textbook, which some schools desperately need. Secondly, it's warping the curricula. In Washington state, a school year is required to have 180 school days. Take out the two weeks for testing, you have 166 days. Take out another two weeks (a minimal value) for straight reviewing, practice tests, etc., you have 142 days. The tests basically take a month out of the school year for nothing. There is also the idea of "teaching to the test", which is what teachers are being forced to do to ensure that students pass, and, in turn, the school passes. Instead of teaching useful material, they must teach what will be on the test. Thirdly, the system of consequences is completely wrong. Schools that don't meet requirements are given extra funds in an attempt to improve the scores, while schools that exceed requirements are given a yearly bonus. Also, students in schools that don't meet requirements are given the option to switch to a school that does. This system makes it financially better to either stay below the AYP (Adequate Yearly Progress), or try to improve scores as closely to the AYP as possible, so the funding lasts longer. Students in lower performing schools flock to higher performing schools, causing illegally high student counts (as in, too many students and not enough teachers). Fourth, there is no such thing as a standardized student, so standardized testing doesn't exactly make sense. Some schools have more special ed than others, and special ed going both ways, gifted and challenged. Multiple choice tests are far from the best way of gauging a large body of students' growth. Lastly, there's the war piece. No Child Left Behind requires ALL schools to supply military recruiters with the names, addresses, and home phone numbers of ALL students. How does this improve education? It doesn't. And here's the kicker: [b]We spend more money on our Middle Eastern "peacekeeping" oil party than we do on our own public education.[/b] Education has a federal budget of $68.6 billion per year (http://www.ed.gov/about/overview/budget/index.html), while we spend about $100 billion per year on Iraq (http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/10/news/economy/costofwar.fortune/index.htm). In 2007, we spent $4,988 on every Iraqi, 3 times their GDP. That's the equivalent of $121,000 per person here (http://zfacts.com/p/447.html). Perhaps No Child Left Behind would be effective if it actually got some money, or if it had it's ideas of improvement in order... There's my argument.[/quote] Please read post. It seems everyone just skipped it... That's why I dislike Bush. [quote=name:Falkoner]Also, if the US hadn't attacked, who's to say we wouldn't have been hit again?[/quote] Who's to say that we would have? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Quote from A_of-s_t

Quote from O)MasterJohnny

Quote from A_of-s_t

This topic is about George W Bush. Not NCLB (whatever that is). Stop arguing "ad hominem (argument directed at the person). This is the error of attacking the character or motives of a person who has stated an idea, rather than the idea itself."

NCLB is the No child left behind act that happened under the Bush administration. It was suppose to help schools and raise the school standards by setting high goals. Echo argues the program is great. (He hasn't actually said anything supporting his arguement) I was trying to show Echo as the product of the NCLB act.

Ahh... The NCLB ACT (you should have been using "act" after every use), doesn't really work. Why should a student who can't read be in the same grade as me? It works on some levels, the act just needs to be seriously ammended.

Quote from FatalException

Quote from [EcHo]:]

Bush has done many great things for our country. One of them is the No Child Left Behind.

No Child Left Behind was a failure. I have never heard anyone with a career in education agree with it. Firstly, it's wasting what little money schools have. States are spending $12 to $18 per student per year on testing alone (http://www.stateline.org/live/details/story?contentId=272382). That's enough to buy every student a textbook, which some schools desperately need.

Secondly, it's warping the curricula. In Washington state, a school year is required to have 180 school days. Take out the two weeks for testing, you have 166 days. Take out another two weeks (a minimal value) for straight reviewing, practice tests, etc., you have 142 days. The tests basically take a month out of the school year for nothing. There is also the idea of "teaching to the test", which is what teachers are being forced to do to ensure that students pass, and, in turn, the school passes. Instead of teaching useful material, they must teach what will be on the test.

Thirdly, the system of consequences is completely wrong. Schools that don't meet requirements are given extra funds in an attempt to improve the scores, while schools that exceed requirements are given a yearly bonus. Also, students in schools that don't meet requirements are given the option to switch to a school that does. This system makes it financially better to either stay below the AYP (Adequate Yearly Progress), or try to improve scores as closely to the AYP as possible, so the funding lasts longer. Students in lower performing schools flock to higher performing schools, causing illegally high student counts (as in, too many students and not enough teachers).

Fourth, there is no such thing as a standardized student, so standardized testing doesn't exactly make sense. Some schools have more special ed than others, and special ed going both ways, gifted and challenged. Multiple choice tests are far from the best way of gauging a large body of students' growth.

Lastly, there's the war piece. No Child Left Behind requires ALL schools to supply military recruiters with the names, addresses, and home phone numbers of ALL students. How does this improve education? It doesn't. And here's the kicker: We spend more money on our Middle Eastern "peacekeeping" oil party than we do on our own public education. Education has a federal budget of $68.6 billion per year (http://www.ed.gov/about/overview/budget/index.html), while we spend about $100 billion per year on Iraq (http://money.cnn.com/2008/01/10/news/economy/costofwar.fortune/index.htm). In 2007, we spent $4,988 on every Iraqi, 3 times their GDP. That's the equivalent of $121,000 per person here (http://zfacts.com/p/447.html).

Perhaps No Child Left Behind would be effective if it actually got some money, or if it had it's ideas of improvement in order... There's my argument.

Please read post. It seems everyone just skipped it... That's why I dislike Bush.

Quote from Falkoner

Also, if the US hadn't attacked, who's to say we wouldn't have been hit again?

Who's to say that we would have? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Because he simply continued his daddies war.

Because he simply continued his daddies war.

[quote]Who's to say that we would have? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.[/quote] So you're saying Al Gore would have been a better candidate because of the sheer [i]chance[/i] we might not have been bombed again? I prefer not to gamble with lives. One more bombing would have killed a lot more than we've lost in war already: http://icasualties.org/oif/

Quote

Who's to say that we would have? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

So you're saying Al Gore would have been a better candidate because of the sheer chance we might not have been bombed again? I prefer not to gamble with lives. One more bombing would have killed a lot more than we've lost in war already: http://icasualties.org/oif/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/may/16/september11.usa1 Bush was warned MULTIPLE TIMES about the attack and ignored the thousands of tips; the Republican mentality is often: ignore the evidence and go with the gut feeling. A Gore Administration would have at least looked into this, to avoid being called weak on national security.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/may/16/september11.usa1

Bush was warned MULTIPLE TIMES about the attack and ignored the thousands of tips; the Republican mentality is often: ignore the evidence and go with the gut feeling. A Gore Administration would have at least looked into this, to avoid being called weak on national security.

[quote]the Republican mentality is often: ignore the evidence and go with the gut feeling.[/quote] Gj stereotyping. :/

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the Republican mentality is often: ignore the evidence and go with the gut feeling.

Gj stereotyping. :/