[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y130/krazydrunkking/4DarkTemples2.png[/IMG] My first melee map ever released to Battle.net. This is currently in a beta so I can find out the balances and fixing up blocky terrain if possible.

My first melee map ever released to Battle.net. This is currently in a beta so I can find out the balances and fixing up blocky terrain if possible.

T > All. Tight, lots of cliffs for tanks, no flanking. And i really dont see a way to fix it either. Sorry. :-_-:

T > All.
Tight, lots of cliffs for tanks, no flanking. And i really dont see a way to fix it either. Sorry.

[quote=name:Excalibur]T > All. Tight, lots of cliffs for tanks, no flanking. And i really dont see a way to fix it either. Sorry. :-_-:[/quote] You obviously never seen it during play.

Quote from Excalibur[MM]

T > All.
Tight, lots of cliffs for tanks, no flanking. And i really dont see a way to fix it either. Sorry.

You obviously never seen it during play.

Well KrayZee, to be fair, its an 8p. This means that T isnt always going to pull some nasty tricks that it has the potential to pull on this map. And if they dont get the chance to, its simply bad luck. Leave any T player worth anything alone on this map, and watch him wall in, push out tanks, and start dropping them with some small air cover or gols. He wins instantly.

Well KrayZee, to be fair, its an 8p. This means that T isnt always going to pull some nasty tricks that it has the potential to pull on this map. And if they dont get the chance to, its simply bad luck. Leave any T player worth anything alone on this map, and watch him wall in, push out tanks, and start dropping them with some small air cover or gols. He wins instantly.

I made a handy-dandy guide to Tank placement. You'll see that some places (purple and orange in particular) are a lot easier to seige out. They have a hell of a long way to go around to ever reach the Tanks.

I made a handy-dandy guide to Tank placement. You'll see that some places (purple and orange in particular) are a lot easier to seige out. They have a hell of a long way to go around to ever reach the Tanks.

The mineral placements are all wrong. You can see how each player's distance is different and some player's minerals aren't even fully accessible. I also do not see what the hell middle is for. Decoration? I am not getting this at all. I'll just suggest that you make this over from scratch, and get a feel on how different mineral placements effect build orders and time differences. The easiest map to make is a 4p map. You'd probably want to start there and make more multiplayer maps. Not only what moose has mentioned is true, Protoss can just storm from behind the walls and destroy workers, or with Zerg, lurkers would do.

The mineral placements are all wrong. You can see how each player's distance is different and some player's minerals aren't even fully accessible. I also do not see what the hell middle is for. Decoration? I am not getting this at all. I'll just suggest that you make this over from scratch, and get a feel on how different mineral placements effect build orders and time differences. The easiest map to make is a 4p map. You'd probably want to start there and make more multiplayer maps.
Not only what moose has mentioned is true, Protoss can just storm from behind the walls and destroy workers, or with Zerg, lurkers would do.

[quote=name:Excalibur]Well KrayZee, to be fair, its an 8p. This means that T isnt always going to pull some nasty tricks that it has the potential to pull on this map. And if they dont get the chance to, its simply bad luck. Leave any T player worth anything alone on this map, and watch him wall in, push out tanks, and start dropping them with some small air cover or gols. He wins instantly.[/quote] The most recent game I have ever played, computers have raped Oo.Alkali.oO's defenses in the blue starting area. Oo.Snipe.oO have easily raped the computer Terran's SCVs and the Zerg kept sending an onslaught of units. The Protoss computer, that have happened to be on Orange's starting area but with the old version in which they are simply squished, it didn't have any problems at all. [quote=name:Mini Moose 2707]I made a handy-dandy guide to Tank placement. You'll see that some places (purple and orange in particular) are a lot easier to seige out. They have a hell of a long way to go around to ever reach the Tanks.[/quote] I already know that Player 4 and 5 will be having trouble, I'm actually planning to remove them. [quote=name:BeDazed]The mineral placements are all wrong. You can see how each player's distance is different and some player's minerals aren't even fully accessible. I also do not see what the hell middle is for. Decoration? I am not getting this at all. I'll just suggest that you make this over from scratch, and get a feel on how different mineral placements effect build orders and time differences. The easiest map to make is a 4p map. You'd probably want to start there and make more multiplayer maps. Not only what moose has mentioned is true, Protoss can just storm from behind the walls and destroy workers, or with Zerg, lurkers would do.[/quote] As a matter of fact, I did originally plan it to make it a four player map. Centreri kept bugging me to turn it into an 8 Player map with Phantom triggers. As for mineral fields, I made it 'blizzard style'.

Quote from Excalibur[MM]

Well KrayZee, to be fair, its an 8p. This means that T isnt always going to pull some nasty tricks that it has the potential to pull on this map. And if they dont get the chance to, its simply bad luck. Leave any T player worth anything alone on this map, and watch him wall in, push out tanks, and start dropping them with some small air cover or gols. He wins instantly.

The most recent game I have ever played, computers have raped Oo.Alkali.oO's defenses in the blue starting area. Oo.Snipe.oO have easily raped the computer Terran's SCVs and the Zerg kept sending an onslaught of units. The Protoss computer, that have happened to be on Orange's starting area but with the old version in which they are simply squished, it didn't have any problems at all.

Quote from Mini Moose 2707

I made a handy-dandy guide to Tank placement. You'll see that some places (purple and orange in particular) are a lot easier to seige out. They have a hell of a long way to go around to ever reach the Tanks.

I already know that Player 4 and 5 will be having trouble, I'm actually planning to remove them.

Quote from BeDazed

The mineral placements are all wrong. You can see how each player's distance is different and some player's minerals aren't even fully accessible. I also do not see what the hell middle is for. Decoration? I am not getting this at all. I'll just suggest that you make this over from scratch, and get a feel on how different mineral placements effect build orders and time differences. The easiest map to make is a 4p map. You'd probably want to start there and make more multiplayer maps.
Not only what moose has mentioned is true, Protoss can just storm from behind the walls and destroy workers, or with Zerg, lurkers would do.

As a matter of fact, I did originally plan it to make it a four player map. Centreri kept bugging me to turn it into an 8 Player map with Phantom triggers. As for mineral fields, I made it 'blizzard style'.

'Blizzard style' is unbalanced and has no value other than nostalgia. Also, computers do not play like people do. You have to understand this is a melee forum, and any opinions i give you are from a balanced, human, melee-player standpoint as that should be the target of your mapping. If your looking to create blizzard-esque, humanVSpc maps, im sorry to say theres a very small market for it, if at all.

'Blizzard style' is unbalanced and has no value other than nostalgia.

Also, computers do not play like people do.

You have to understand this is a melee forum, and any opinions i give you are from a balanced, human, melee-player standpoint as that should be the target of your mapping. If your looking to create blizzard-esque, humanVSpc maps, im sorry to say theres a very small market for it, if at all.

Regarding "Blizzard" style... if you going to do it, at least do it in the same way for all players. It's more imbalanced if different players have access to more minerals at their mains. Also, not sure, but worker AI for workers mining the minerals walling in Purple/Orange will want to mine both sides. This requires a looong trip over the bridges and all the way around the cliffs to get at them.

Regarding "Blizzard" style... if you going to do it, at least do it in the same way for all players. It's more imbalanced if different players have access to more minerals at their mains.

Also, not sure, but worker AI for workers mining the minerals walling in Purple/Orange will want to mine both sides. This requires a looong trip over the bridges and all the way around the cliffs to get at them.

Okay, edited. Included an attachment for test. This map is good for "Team Free for All" games.

Okay, edited. Included an attachment for test. This map is good for "Team Free for All" games.

Still too tight, Z will still never be able to defend both base chokes, and mineral formations are still bad.

Still too tight, Z will still never be able to defend both base chokes, and mineral formations are still bad.

You should take a look at the maps in 'League' and take a look at its mineral placements.

You should take a look at the maps in 'League' and take a look at its mineral placements.

I didn't even change the minerals at all... I'm bringing it down to eight mineral fields per start location. Also I brought the mineral fields (Where Blue, Purple, Orange and White used to be at) to seven mineral fields along by leaving a single geyser in a different spot where Purple and Orange used to be at. According to the new screenshot, the four main bases have expanded and the expo above/below became thinner.

I didn't even change the minerals at all... I'm bringing it down to eight mineral fields per start location. Also I brought the mineral fields (Where Blue, Purple, Orange and White used to be at) to seven mineral fields along by leaving a single geyser in a different spot where Purple and Orange used to be at. According to the new screenshot, the four main bases have expanded and the expo above/below became thinner.

Updated again. You should be able to see the differences of the four bases. Also the Pyramid in the center is now placed on top of a very high cliff (Yet blocky since it is copy and paste laziness cause I'm so sleepy along multitasking). Plus, the Pyramid has been added another story higher. That should definitely remove enough room of what Moose spoke of about Siege Tanks set up there. Yes, Siege Tanks can easily be placed but it definitely can't move around very easily. As it is forced to only Siege when dropped, there shouldn't be a good use for Siege Tanks up there anymore. Soon there will be non walkable terrain underneath the Xel'Naga Temple sprite to prevent units set up there. The doodad underneath is only a placeholder for now.

Updated again. You should be able to see the differences of the four bases. Also the Pyramid in the center is now placed on top of a very high cliff (Yet blocky since it is copy and paste laziness cause I'm so sleepy along multitasking). Plus, the Pyramid has been added another story higher.

That should definitely remove enough room of what Moose spoke of about Siege Tanks set up there. Yes, Siege Tanks can easily be placed but it definitely can't move around very easily. As it is forced to only Siege when dropped, there shouldn't be a good use for Siege Tanks up there anymore. Soon there will be non walkable terrain underneath the Xel'Naga Temple sprite to prevent units set up there. The doodad underneath is only a placeholder for now.

[quote=name:KrayZee]That should definitely remove enough room of what Moose spoke of about Siege Tanks set up there. Yes, Siege Tanks can easily be placed but it definitely can't move around very easily.[/quote] That has nothing to do with it, where they can move is trivial and it is their range that is the problem. If you wont listen to reason i dont think i can really help you make a better map. And Z still has an enterence problem.

Quote from KrayZee

That should definitely remove enough room of what Moose spoke of about Siege Tanks set up there. Yes, Siege Tanks can easily be placed but it definitely can't move around very easily.

That has nothing to do with it, where they can move is trivial and it is their range that is the problem. If you wont listen to reason i dont think i can really help you make a better map. And Z still has an enterence problem.

What about the MINERAL formations? I don't really see any help but criticism and confusion. Seriously, what the fuck is a "enterence"? Not to mention about blending terrain at the same time, but what do you mean by base chokes? If you're referring to choke [i]points[/i], the base in front of the four main bases may be altered. The long hallway above/below the main bases are there temporary, as to see how useless they are in all races will soon be removed.

What about the MINERAL formations? I don't really see any help but criticism and confusion. Seriously, what the fuck is a "enterence"?

Not to mention about blending terrain at the same time, but what do you mean by base chokes? If you're referring to choke points, the base in front of the four main bases may be altered. The long hallway above/below the main bases are there temporary, as to see how useless they are in all races will soon be removed.

[quote]What about the MINERAL formations? I don't really see any help but criticism and confusion. Seriously, what the fuck is a "enterence"?[/quote] By 'help', do you mean praise? :P It's really hard to understand people's complaints unless you've actually played a handful of melee games. (3000~4000 games)

Quote

What about the MINERAL formations? I don't really see any help but criticism and confusion. Seriously, what the fuck is a "enterence"?

By 'help', do you mean praise?

It's really hard to understand people's complaints unless you've actually played a handful of melee games. (3000~4000 games)

There's no way a protoss will win against a T... the bridges are so small they'll just send units 1 by 1 to get their asses bombed by siege tanks. and then theres the T push problem. So much free space to just build turrets, expand, and just place siege tanks at entrances of bridges. That and yes zerg will have trouble defending their base since theres 2 entrances for main and the expansion is so far away that's you can't win unless you have good amount of sunkens in both areas.

There's no way a protoss will win against a T...
the bridges are so small they'll just send units 1 by 1 to get their asses bombed by siege tanks.
and then theres the T push problem. So much free space to just build turrets, expand, and just place siege tanks at entrances of bridges. That and yes zerg will have trouble defending their base since theres 2 entrances for main and the expansion is so far away that's you can't win unless you have good amount of sunkens in both areas.

[quote=name:BeDazed][quote]What about the MINERAL formations? I don't really see any help but criticism and confusion. Seriously, what the fuck is a "enterence"?[/quote] By 'help', do you mean praise? :P It's really hard to understand people's complaints unless you've actually played a handful of melee games. (3000~4000 games)[/quote] By help, I mean suggestions. Pointing out JUST the wrong does not justify as helping. I will removes the bridges, before MNeox have ever mentioned a single word about it. And to be honest, I multitask all the time so I may miss some of this and that sometimes.

Quote from BeDazed

Quote

What about the MINERAL formations? I don't really see any help but criticism and confusion. Seriously, what the fuck is a "enterence"?

By 'help', do you mean praise?

It's really hard to understand people's complaints unless you've actually played a handful of melee games. (3000~4000 games)

By help, I mean suggestions. Pointing out JUST the wrong does not justify as helping.

I will removes the bridges, before MNeox have ever mentioned a single word about it. And to be honest, I multitask all the time so I may miss some of this and that sometimes.

I am helping. I am suggesting that you seriously play melee for once in your life, and see your map then. You'll see why I told you, because you'll see a lot of things wrong, and you will know what to correct all by yourself.

I am helping. I am suggesting that you seriously play melee for once in your life, and see your map then. You'll see why I told you, because you'll see a lot of things wrong, and you will know what to correct all by yourself.