Staredit Network > Forums > SC1 Map Showcase > Topic: Resident Evil: Daylight
Resident Evil: Daylight
Jul 13 2022, 9:37 pm
By: Excalibur  

Jul 13 2022, 9:37 pm Excalibur Post #1

The sword and the faith


[Project Daylight]
[Started:6/26/22]
[Based on Battle of Raccoon City by Vlad_Vampire.]


Foundations


Welcome to Project Daylight, born from the desire to take a classic RE-based war map and modernize it for Remastered.
The original BoRC had many great concepts in it but with a long intro, complete with cutscenes, it was ill-suited for the current BNet climate.
Combined with some less then stellar wait-blocked trigger design, and a few remaining bugs, there was ample opportunity for improvement.



Gameplay and Design


Project Daylight is first and foremost a tactics map, designed to give weighted strategic choice at all times.
Each decision one makes with when and where to attack or expand will have ripple affects throughout the game.
Players are split into Heroes and Factions, and those Factions split in to the Living and Undead.

Heroes can collect and arm civilians around the city, as well as pickup powerful weapons.
They are at their best when assisting their factions in goals of expansion or attack.

Factions have bases to defend or acquire, and enemy bases to destroy.
Limiting your enemy from gaining more spawns is just as important as defending your own.
Good usage of your own units and direction of your heroes is essential to victory.



Slots and Roles


-Heroes (Jill, Brad, and Carlos)
-Living Factions (RPD, UBCS)
-Undead Factions (Park, Sewer)


General Strategy



Spawn Locations / Amounts



Map Overview and Download



FullMap


Download


Post has been edited 24 time(s), last time on Aug 5 2022, 10:01 pm by Excalibur.




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Jul 23 2022, 5:45 pm Ultraviolet Post #2

Don't stop till you get enough

This looks pretty interesting and cool.. so it's a 7 player map with no AI? Have you had trouble filling up game lobbies at all? Seems like that could be an issue with the current state of Battle.net. Does the game require a full house and if not how does that affect the general gameplay?




Jul 26 2022, 10:58 pm Excalibur Post #3

The sword and the faith

Quote from Ultraviolet
This looks pretty interesting and cool.. so it's a 7 player map with no AI? Have you had trouble filling up game lobbies at all? Seems like that could be an issue with the current state of Battle.net. Does the game require a full house and if not how does that affect the general gameplay?
It is very hard to get 7 players but we do it anyhow. Its a great time when it works. :bye1:




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Jul 30 2022, 5:26 pm Excalibur Post #4

The sword and the faith

Update:
As of a couple of days ago Daylight has been brought into the EUD Era. :prof:

This was an extremely long journey stemming back from the original edits of BoRC, getting various systems remade, and lowering the unit count steadily across the past month while still retaining the core gameplay.

New units including the Riot Squad and Black Tiger Arachnids have been added, along with a full dynamic weapon switching system for the heroes. This is in addition to various EUD enhancements to existing units.

Future plans are to extend the weapon system to the Undead heroes and possibly add multiple forms for them.




SEN Global Moderator and Resident Zealot
-------------------------
The sword and the faith.

:ex:
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Jul 30 2022, 6:53 pm Ultraviolet Post #5

Don't stop till you get enough

So after playing last night, I feel that it is very well done and fun under the right conditions. There's a lot I like about it, the terrain is well done, the EUDs are well implemented so that it feels like you're playing more than just a map, a true game of its own. The balance seems reasonably good when the teams are balanced to have similar experience levels.

I'm sure I'll have more thoughts for you at some point, but here's some initial feedback:
  • I see the required players as a major issue with the current state of Battle.net. Have you considered making it so only one of the town factions is required for each team? This would allow you to play with as few as 2 players and I think could make for more interesting team combinations. It might even be cool to change it so that one of the heroes belongs to the undead faction to give the teams a more even balance of player numbers, although I understand that would be a significant change that you probably don't want to do.
  • The medic healing system feels limiting, I don't feel like you should have to sit around waiting to heal as long as you do for hero units, it slows down the gameplay in a way that didn't feel that fun to me. Maybe this is just my inexperience with the game speaking, but I would prefer to see a heal system that could heal units faster/instantly with the expense of being on a timer of some sort so you can only do it at whatever rate you set. I know there was some discussion of speeding up medic healing via EUDs, and maybe you can get that system to work well, but in my experience, EUD unit loops to do things like healing come at the expense of major trigger lag, particularly for those on crappy systems, but regardless of system, too many unit looping EUD triggers will cause you problems. Having to run your hero to a specific location and wait ~30s or however long you want to set for balance for a heal seems like a great alternative to me.
  • The balance of the hero force felt weird, collecting civs and getting piddly non-upgradeable units didn't feel very rewarding to me. I think it would be cool if heroes could slowly upgrade their units maybe based on completing some sort of objectives so they experienced a power gain over time (more than just collecting the few weapons scattered around the map which don't improve their squad units at all, only the heroes). Again maybe it's just my inexperience speaking or a different vision of what would be fun than you, but I personally would like to see the hero squads have more relevance than they do currently which I believe upgrades would be a good solution for without having to change anything too substantially. Probably would need to buff undead a bit to compensate.
  • Have you considered giving the hero units spells (it would be incredibly easy to do for the ghost units since it's built into their AI)? I know I suggested stim while playing, but there's a ton of other spells which as far as I can tell are completely unused which could give the heroes more diversity. Maybe one has DMatrix while another has irradiate or ensnare or plague. Tons of options and I think worth considering. Since DWeb and Dark Swarm are completely unused you could even make targeting spells which detected the DWeb or swarm and replaced them with some trigger effect.

That's all I've got for now, hopefully something valuable for you there.




Jul 30 2022, 9:26 pm Excalibur Post #6

The sword and the faith

Quote from Ultraviolet
So after playing last night, I feel that it is very well done and fun under the right conditions. There's a lot I like about it, the terrain is well done, the EUDs are well implemented so that it feels like you're playing more than just a map, a true game of its own. The balance seems reasonably good when the teams are balanced to have similar experience levels.
Thank you, this is the culmination of a month straight of work and a small number of people are starting to recognize not just the effort but that there's something here. I appreciate that immensely.

Quote from Ultraviolet
I see the required players as a major issue with the current state of Battle.net. Have you considered making it so only one of the town factions is required for each team? This would allow you to play with as few as 2 players and I think could make for more interesting team combinations. It might even be cool to change it so that one of the heroes belongs to the undead faction to give the teams a more even balance of player numbers, although I understand that would be a significant change that you probably don't want to do.
This is a tough one to be sure. We have to be realistic about the state of Bnet at current but at the same time, if the vision is two separate teams of multiple individuals coming together to complete different objectives, there are realities there too. That being said, I feel like the map is as low-player as it could be. I was actually toying with the idea at one point to make Nemesis his own player-controlled hero and give Park something else, but I think I'd be hard pressed finding an 8th for some of these lobbies with 7 already being an issue. On top of that I feel like each faction player has a TON of stuff they can be doing/assessing at any given moment and so just combining slots doesn't solve for our human limits of maximum posible inputs. Bottom line is I hear you, but this is probably not changing.

Quote from Ultraviolet
The medic healing system feels limiting, I don't feel like you should have to sit around waiting to heal as long as you do for hero units, it slows down the gameplay in a way that didn't feel that fun to me. Maybe this is just my inexperience with the game speaking, but I would prefer to see a heal system that could heal units faster/instantly with the expense of being on a timer of some sort so you can only do it at whatever rate you set. I know there was some discussion of speeding up medic healing via EUDs, and maybe you can get that system to work well, but in my experience, EUD unit loops to do things like healing come at the expense of major trigger lag, particularly for those on crappy systems, but regardless of system, too many unit looping EUD triggers will cause you problems. Having to run your hero to a specific location and wait ~30s or however long you want to set for balance for a heal seems like a great alternative to me.
So at one time the Undead did have a time-based healer that would go on CD every time it was used for ~2 minutes. It didn't work as well as I would've liked but it was pre-EUD so we have more options now. I know people get bent out of shape worrying about loops with EUDs but I've done a few while working with Mil and Doodler, and it seems like you absolutely can use them in a non-performance impacting way if done smartly. I think this is something I'll look into but I'd be lying if I said this was high-priority at this moment.

Quote from Ultraviolet
The balance of the hero force felt weird, collecting civs and getting piddly non-upgradeable units didn't feel very rewarding to me. I think it would be cool if heroes could slowly upgrade their units maybe based on completing some sort of objectives so they experienced a power gain over time (more than just collecting the few weapons scattered around the map which don't improve their squad units at all, only the heroes). Again maybe it's just my inexperience speaking or a different vision of what would be fun than you, but I personally would like to see the hero squads have more relevance than they do currently which I believe upgrades would be a good solution for without having to change anything too substantially. Probably would need to buff undead a bit to compensate.
I like the idea in spirit but in practice this is going to be hard to do at a level that doesn't imbalance the map. Games do go on for a good awhile (A good match is typically 45mins - 1.5hr in my experience.) and so its hard to judge how exactly to implement the scale for this. One idea I like and that I think will help with some problems we've had with idle heroes is giving them rewards for number of kills. This could be in resources they can use for upgrades, or it could directly translate into recruited units rather than the current civ system. I don't know exactly what I want yet, but I do want to add some hero scaling, just without ruining the faction balance, which is a tall order.

Quote from Ultraviolet
Have you considered giving the hero units spells (it would be incredibly easy to do for the ghost units since it's built into their AI)? I know I suggested stim while playing, but there's a ton of other spells which as far as I can tell are completely unused which could give the heroes more diversity. Maybe one has DMatrix while another has irradiate or ensnare or plague. Tons of options and I think worth considering. Since DWeb and Dark Swarm are completely unused you could even make targeting spells which detected the DWeb or swarm and replaced them with some trigger effect.
Thought about this for the first time last night, and I have ideas for sure, but nothing concrete yet. I'm also toying with the idea of switching Carlos to an infantry unit like Jill and Brad to make them more uniform. It'd also make it less work to switch his weapons since I need to do an extra step for the goliath turret every time. I think escape or utility spells would be my focus since the worst part of being a hero at current is when you get surrounded. I'll probably need some help figuring out what I can feasibly do for these.

Thanks for the feedback and thanks for playing!!




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Jul 31 2022, 2:20 am Ultraviolet Post #7

Don't stop till you get enough

Quote from Excalibur
I know people get bent out of shape worrying about loops with EUDs but I've done a few while working with Mil and Doodler, and it seems like you absolutely can use them in a non-performance impacting way if done smartly. I think this is something I'll look into but I'd be lying if I said this was high-priority at this moment.

I can't speak to how smartly I was using them, but I can say with certainty that EUD unit looping triggers can cause serious trigger lag if taken very far. When I was developing Impossible Ultraviolet, I originally had a system where players could upgrade the speed of their hero's energy regeneration, up to 5 times, plus they had a default boost to energy regeneration making each hero have 6 regeneration triggers. Certain heroes might get more like 12 though because they didn't have energy to regen and so instead the energy regen upgrades would make their HP and SP regenerate faster. With 21 selectable heroes, this ended up resulting in 126+ regeneration triggers in the EE2 advanced trigger editor under the unit loops. Then one unit loop per human player increased this to 756+. Once EE2 worked its magic this turned into several MB worth of triggers which unfortunately caused pretty substantial trigger lag especially for anyone on an older machine. I doubt you'll run into anything this severe, just a little cautionary tale for you :P

Quote from Excalibur
I like the idea in spirit but in practice this is going to be hard to do at a level that doesn't imbalance the map. Games do go on for a good awhile (A good match is typically 45mins - 1.5hr in my experience.) and so its hard to judge how exactly to implement the scale for this. One idea I like and that I think will help with some problems we've had with idle heroes is giving them rewards for number of kills. This could be in resources they can use for upgrades, or it could directly translate into recruited units rather than the current civ system. I don't know exactly what I want yet, but I do want to add some hero scaling, just without ruining the faction balance, which is a tall order.

On the note of preventing upgrades from too drastically affecting the game balance, you can always start really low and see how that goes, make it so heroes get a max of 3 upgrades and make them take like 20+ minutes each to acquire. I think incremental changes go a long way in the development process, I always appreciated it when I kept that in mind. Every drastic change I made always had to be countered by some other drastic change which when you already have a reasonably well balanced project isn't great. And I agree, some sort of reward system for kills would go a long way towards making the hero experience more engaging.

Quote from Excalibur
Thought about this for the first time last night, and I have ideas for sure, but nothing concrete yet. I'm also toying with the idea of switching Carlos to an infantry unit like Jill and Brad to make them more uniform. It'd also make it less work to switch his weapons since I need to do an extra step for the goliath turret every time. I think escape or utility spells would be my focus since the worst part of being a hero at current is when you get surrounded. I'll probably need some help figuring out what I can feasibly do for these.

I like the idea of switching Carlos to be infantry as well. Ghosts are ideal because they can have spells added with their iscript if you do end up going that route, but you could also do a DT (probably uncloaked) type hero, they have spellcasting built into their iscript as well. Although a DT might not be ideal since all the heroes share ranged weapons. Carlos felt kind of bulky and awkward as a hero when compared to the skinny ghosts. A marine could be given basically an on unit gateway casting system by following Skywindragoon's tutorial. Also not sure what all units you have available to you, but one cool thing about hero units like Mojo or Jim Raynor (Vulture) for example are that if you change their unit type, the hardcoded speed boosts still apply. So you could theoretically use a unit that would probably be too slow to be a hero in usual circumstances like an HT. One thing I did appreciate about Carlos which might also present a general easy solution to your healing problem is that he was repairable. It's easy enough to make anything repairable giving it the right flags, so you could make all the heroes repairable (including undead) and give players some amount of SCVs to aid in healing endeavors.

An easy idea for hero escape spells that you could use for 2 heroes (probably more if you were clever with your triggers, but it could be error prone if other heroes were in the vicinity) is some form of blink/teleport with swarm/DWeb as the casting method. Another utility spell that I've used is a gravity trap that creates a powerup that forces all nearby enemy units to run towards it continuously, giving the hero some time to get away or even pound on the enemy for a bit. Having the gravity trap spawn spider mines around it periodically adds to the fun :P Again you could use Skywindragoon's tutorial to make it castable from a button on the hero unit or just do a gateway type casting system which is certainly a bit more straightforward to implement but a bit less elegant.




Jul 31 2022, 2:31 am Excalibur Post #8

The sword and the faith

So some of these are already implemented as of a couple hours ago:
-All 3 player heroes now have Maelstrom, DWeb, and Parasite (Stun Grenade, Smoke Grenade, GPS Device) which can allow them to escape, disable defenses, or track Nem/Tyrant/Birkin. (Undead Medics can Restore to remove parasite so its not perm.)

-Carlos was converted to a ghost.

-All units are medic-healable. (Excudes tanks.)

-All heroes have regen.

-You can now get +2/+3 ups from 250/500 kills as a hero.

-Some of the hero weapons were edited to differentiate them a little more (AR is less useless.)

:)

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jul 31 2022, 3:20 pm by Excalibur.




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Jul 31 2022, 5:31 pm Ultraviolet Post #9

Don't stop till you get enough

Those sound like some cool changes, one question though: is it your intention for all the heroes to feel exactly the same? If not, could you tell me about how they're differentiated? My experience of them which was as you know prior to Carlos being changed to a ghost was already that they were very very similar. With you now adding the exact same spells for each hero and converting Carlos into a ghost like the other two, is there any difference between the heroes?




Jul 31 2022, 6:00 pm Excalibur Post #10

The sword and the faith

Quote from Ultraviolet
Those sound like some cool changes, one question though: is it your intention for all the heroes to feel exactly the same? If not, could you tell me about how they're differentiated? My experience of them which was as you know prior to Carlos being changed to a ghost was already that they were very very similar. With you now adding the exact same spells for each hero and converting Carlos into a ghost like the other two, is there any difference between the heroes?

No the heroes are meant to be very samesy at current. I think adding different elements for them would take a lot of time and planning and really the factions are the focus of the map. With the added spells/ups plus the dynamic weapon system, I feel like heroes are in a good spot.

Once the civ system is revamped I don't think they'll need much else.




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-------------------------
The sword and the faith.

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Aug 5 2022, 9:21 pm Excalibur Post #11

The sword and the faith

Today is the largest update to Daylight since the map first went EUD.

There are a litany of terrain, unit, spell, stat, and weapon changes on the front end including full weapon tooltips.

On the back end, all faction internal and external spawns have been ported over into EUD triggs to help the map move forward, operate more reliably, and make future changes easier.

It took a little over a week to get this version polished up and I'm hoping it will continue to provide great games.

My intent going forward is to use OBS to record some games if possible and put them up on YT.




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-------------------------
The sword and the faith.

:ex:
Sector 12
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