So, I'm not great at this melee map making thing, but every once in a while I like to give it a whirl, so any suggestions on this would be appreciated. It's going to be decorated later if it can be salvaged from what I've done to it. So, here it is!

Updated Version:

http://www.freewebs.com/clangamerz/CSM.jpg (img: failed to get size)

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ya man your map looks rad. I kinda wanna play it. U could spice it up a lil with water terrain around the bulky islands in the middle

Oh yeah, I plan to decorate later, are there any things you see that could be disadvantageous to certain races?

I tried to make the paths wide enough for protoss to be able to flank, and the rock terrain so terrans can't push with turrets (I think this is necessary?)

I also tried to make sure that there was enough money that people weren't out immediately, but not so much that they wouldn't have to fight for it.

Edit: Btw, thank you

Too tight, 2 enterances is bad for Z, mains are WAY too small, you need inverted ramps for it to be balanced.

I see no future for this design/layout.

Quote from Excalibur

Too tight, 2 enterances is bad for Z, mains are WAY too small, you need inverted ramps for it to be balanced.

I see no future for this design/layout.

Yeah, I seem to have a problem with making mains too small. I think this can be fixed.

I don't think it being too tight can't be worked around.

I'm pretty sure two entrances can be made up for in other ways.

Last, you need inverted ramps for it to be exactly equal, but I don't think they have to be exactly equal to be balanced. Lost Temple for example, that is considered a balanced map, right? It certainly doesn't have inverted ramps.

Overall, I think it should be able to be worked around in such a way that doesn't require scrapping the map, or getting rid of the design, it just will take a bit of work.

I don't like how straight the whole thing is. It looks unnatural.

LT is a horribly imbalanced map, dude. Tankable naturals, positional imbalance, CC float islands...it's only on the WGT mappack because lots of people play it and it's as close as Blizzard could get to making a good map (and Blood Bath and BGH didn't qualify).

The whole symmetrical, geometrical design of the map is very aesthetically repulsive. This wouldn't look quite so bad on space platform, but it will still be imbalanced.

TvZ - T wins due to 2 entrances into mains
PvT - T wins again due to the whole map being a choke point with no maneuvering/flanking space
ZvP - P is very limited in BOs because any tech BO will get rushed to death, it can still be balanced to a degree, but it's not gonna be fun for P

I've seen tons of games on LT and it doesn't seem horribly imbalanced to me. I think you guys have a different idea of horrible imbalanced :\

Once again, the squarish symmetry is temporary, I'll chisel it out a bit later after it is more balanced.

Is there anyway that I can make it so Z isn't screwed by T with the two entrances? I really like the way that is so different in that.

How much would I need to add to the map to make it less of an entire choke point?

Nerdy, ill give you a little advice that plauged me as an early melee mapper:
What you think is irrelivent when your being given the opinion of someone who knows a good deal more about melee than you do.

LT has been noted as imbalanced by nearly everyone that knows anything about melee.

If you want to keep the 2 enterences i reccomend this:
Go in scmdraft, sprites, unit sprites, protoss special buildings, and for player 12 place an xel naga temple blocking the high ground. Make sure to place a start location for player 12 so these will show up.

Quote from Excalibur

Nerdy, ill give you a little advice that plauged me as an early melee mapper:
What you think is irrelivent when your being given the opinion of someone who knows a good deal more about melee than you do.

LT has been noted as imbalanced by nearly everyone that knows anything about melee.

If you want to keep the 2 enterences i reccomend this:
Go in scmdraft, sprites, unit sprites, protoss special buildings, and for player 12 place an xel naga temple blocking the high ground. Make sure to place a start location for player 12 so these will show up.

Yeah, I was actually considering that when I created it and I just didn't know if it was necessary. Should I set the hp to a certain percentage so it doesn't take forever to kill, but it does provide some blocking?

Quote from Valug

<sub>That mineral block in the middle is totally unnecessary. Also, wtb a choke point at mains.

Well, actually, scrap the map. Thats my opinion.</sub>

Hmm what is wtb? Also, hearing that from you is rather.. disheartening

Im not sure if percentages work on sprites, map sprites are *relatively* new in melee mapping and i havent explored it fully. For now leave them at 100%, i said XelNaga because that path is into the main and as such should be hard to kill.

I also agree with Valug, im really not liking this design.

If you (rightfully i might add) choose to make a new map, i sugges you do the standard, mains in courners, naturals on the sides leading to the open mid with a min only on the way, and maybe a couple of islands or mid-expos depending.

Good luck.

Quote from Excalibur

Im not sure if percentages work on sprites, map sprites are *relatively* new in melee mapping and i havent explored it fully. For now leave them at 100%, i said XelNaga because that path is into the main and as such should be hard to kill.

I also agree with Valug, im really not liking this design.

If you (rightfully i might add) choose to make a new map, i sugges you do the standard, mains in courners, naturals on the sides leading to the open mid with a min only on the way, and maybe a couple of islands or mid-expos depending.

Good luck.

Well, I'll quote Valug here:

Quote from Valug

Yeah, those maps are fine, if you want to make the same old map thats been made a thousand times already.

/thumbsdown

So perhaps this isn't the best new design, but I would like something kind of new rather than the standard things.

Making non-standard or as theyre called experimental maps is what you do AFTER you can successfully make a good and balanced standard map, and do it well.

I like skipping steps

I've toyed with what you said and I'll add the new pic in a second.

Mains still too small, still unbalanced a good deal by the lack of inverts.

No offense but im done giving advice on this map, its got no hope. =/

Fine, will someone please explain to me why inverted ramps are so damn important?

That's what I thought about the inverted ramps. I seem to remember people really calling Ex down on Maplantis for giving overly harsh, and not even very good advice.

No need to scrap.
Just renovate.

What happened to the philosophy that ALL starcraft maps have ONE blockable choke unless you can successfully pull off a backdoor with a block, or just a really obnoxiously long thin choke?

TO RENOVATE:
-Make a reasonable choke to the main.
-Open up the middle for some kind of battleground.
-Add mineral expansions, or gas expansions if you take out the gases in the natural. (since they unbalance)
-Mineral line/Gas node placement.