Staredit Network > Forums > SC1 Map Showcase > Topic: Starcraft Campaign: Reversed
Starcraft Campaign: Reversed
Jun 29 2021, 2:18 am
By: TheHappy115  

Jul 30 2021, 6:33 pm Bruce Post #21



Indeed it makes a lot of senses. Thank you very much for your feedback.



None.

Jul 30 2021, 11:55 pm TheHappy115 Post #22



The Broodwar Campaign Protoss Edition has been released. I hope those who enjoyed the Reverse Series so far also enjoy this series as well.

Protoss Broodwar Mission 1: http://www.staredit.net/sc1db/file/5375/

Screen Shots:



Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Aug 2 2021, 6:06 pm by TheHappy115.



None.

Aug 17 2021, 3:09 pm Heinermann Post #23

SDE, BWAPI owner, hacker.

# terran3
- Adrenal Glands and lvl3 upgrades are enabled, but they should be disabled because Hive morph isn't enabled.

# terran5
- Typo in Mission Objectives in Briefing: "Destroy an Rebel Bases that emerge".
- For the longest time during the mission, your ally (White) does not do anything until after Kerrigan kills the officer and takes over the top right. The AI can't really do anything to disrupt the beginning of the mission so I'm not sure why it isn't run initially.
- This mission was too difficult for me. You're immediately facing 3 fully teched Terran bases from your tiny island with an incompetent ally.

# terran6
- Lurker Aspect is researchable. The map is probably saved as hybrid which means playing with Starcraft expansion enables expansion things. The expansion units/techs can be disabled in the editor.
- Could have an indicator for how many dropships are by the Norad II.

# terran7 and terran8
- Too difficult for me.

# terran9
- Similar to terran6, the Dark Archon abilities are researchable. Might want to do a pass on each scenario and make sure expansion abilities are disabled.
- Kerrigan just kind of stuck around after the cutscene and didn't die.
- Not sure but the Zerg might benefit running an area town or other script initially so its drones don't appear idle prior to the cutscene.


EDIT:

# zerg2
- Same issue with expansion techs being in.
- Too difficult for me.

# zerg3
- Medics are available even though it's not an expansion campaign. Can be beaten easily without them.

# zerg4
- Again, expansion units and upgrades are enabled.

# zerg8
- Same issue with expansion units, including being able to make Dark Templar.
- I think there should be a better or more continuous indicator of where the Dark Templar are being sent as I couldn't tell where they were going after the first one.
- The ally doesn't appear to do anything initially.
- I gave up on this one.

# zerg9
- Was too difficult for me.


Seems every map has issues with expansion tech, upgrades, and units being available.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Aug 18 2021, 5:43 am by Heinermann.




Sep 18 2021, 5:07 am TheHappy115 Post #24



Quote from Heinermann
# terran3
- Adrenal Glands and lvl3 upgrades are enabled, but they should be disabled because Hive morph isn't enabled.

Seems every map has issues with expansion tech, upgrades, and units being available.

Almost all of these missions were done rather fast and I wasn't entirely aware of which upgrades were expansion or original however it seems to be a larger issue than I realized.

1) I ran into issues with the editor during a Blizzard update so I had to transfer some work over. This may have caused issues with saves (Terran Scenario 6 is definitely one that was reverted and is the worst offender because the older one had disabled Terran units which breaks the AI. Thanks to C[a]HeK from being this to my attention).
2) I actually learned map editing (from when I was a kid) by myself without really any help from others. As a result, I actually used only the StarEdit campaign editor (yes, the crappy one) for learning my maps. When I got back to Starcraft 1 (about a year ago), I finally decided to download SCMDraft 2 (because its better and StarEdit no longer exists). Saving files is something I have a bad habit in SCMDraft 2 because when you are swapping between different maps, I found it store copies of it. I unintentionally overwrote some of my newer files with older ones because of my inexperience in this category. I apologize if this effects certain things (disabling expansion units was one the last things I did before testing).
3) I originally thought I disabled most of the expansion units but I guess I forgot on some of them (or the versions got reverted during my transfer of the maps as mentioned above).
4) Originally, I thought it wouldn't be an issue to leave upgrades to units obviously not available (especially since I don't really remember the name of the abilities). However, it seems to be a larger issue than I originally thought so in the next update, I'll do my best to try to fix the upgrades and actually look into which ones belong and which don't.

5) As for allies, I hesitate to make them stronger. This is because allies are TERRIBLE at attacking, but significantly better at defending. (This is because they only make stuff when they lose things. When under attack, they start producing from all structures but if they aren't they don't do anything and rarely attack. This makes 3 problems with this reverse series:
I) Their attack waves are super small so they seem useless.
II) On any difficulty higher than easy, they become hard to kill if there isn't a large force attacking them. This means I need an easy to kill allies and strong enemy AIs that can actually threaten them. (I also found Terran to be by far the weakest of the three in terms of AI strength. In my opinion, 2 Insane Terran AIs are weaker than 1 Insane Protoss AI. However, the spike between Hard and Insane difficult is also massive so it becomes hard to balance)
III) In the Campaign, the enemy always has a large force while the player is given a small one. Because it is reversed, I have to remove stuff for the player and add stuff for the AI. In large areas, an ally AI is a good way to "give" stuff to limit some of the super strong starting power that you otherwise would have. (In a lot of these reverse missions, your base is often more "spacious" versus the enemy AI and that can create pathing and placement issues)

Thanks for trying out the series though. Sorry if some of the missions are difficult. The scaling is a bit all over the place (and the difficulty isn't consistent) and I found that sometimes a mission is fairly easy but then the next playthrough of it becomes really hard (sometimes this is because of AI placement of structures and delaying of things or stopping an essential attack wave).



None.

Sep 23 2021, 5:44 am C(a)HeK Post #25



I refuse to continue testing your maps because your campaign is insane edition v2.
Do you know insane edition?
Check - https://www.moddb.com/mods/starcraft-coop-campaign/addons/starcraftstarcraft-brood-war-insane-edition
And playthrough - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-Z4nVKfXd9VjxqCSalDfL5qSZUxHwKse

You can ask - why is that?
Monotonous gameplay - I must always fight the same enemies (insane + difficult + custom scripts) => I don't want to waste time and nerves on the same thing. Every time a computer and I have everything. In the original there was a gradation of difficulty, the player developed along with new units, in your campaign this can be seen in the first 2-3 missions of each episode, in other missions everyone has everything.

Your campaign needs changes everywhere. It is not only about changing players and creating insane AI. This move, as for me, was lazy. Of course, there are people who like to fight with insane, but NOT EVERY TIME!
I will not test anymore until there are comfortable changes.



Hello everyone, friends. You can call me Alexander. :)
Additional Story Series creator
Maps & Info - https://disk.yandex.ru/d/8yj1Y_ddxE9FIA
Videos - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvj8rhscGCvTrcYKVyvvMP7uTxlkSjMzz

Sep 23 2021, 9:22 pm TheHappy115 Post #26



Quote from C(a)HeK
I refuse to continue testing your maps because your campaign is insane edition v2.

Your campaign needs changes everywhere. It is not only about changing players and creating insane AI. This move, as for me, was lazy. Of course, there are people who like to fight with insane, but NOT EVERY TIME!
I will not test anymore until there are comfortable changes.

I do agree with the repetitive nature in this (coop campaign actually shares this problem. At least the files I have, all of them have AI set to Medium/Hard difficulty). In terms of the campaign, I'll investigate into some other scripts to see the usage of the other "AI" scripts inside. In terms of custom scripting AI (other than just create/order commands), this won't happen because I don't know anything on how to do it (I'll see how difficult it is to learn). Because this is more of a "side" project for me, these updates will come much later though (I'll post when that happens, this may take awhile because I'll have to experiment a lot with scripts I'm unfamiliar with but I'll reference the AI scripting forum page at some point).

At the moment the "difficult/insane" AI settings will be the "place holder" for now, so sorry for that inconvenience

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Sep 23 2021, 11:00 pm by TheHappy115.



None.

Nov 18 2021, 6:13 am TheHappy115 Post #27



Terran Broodwar Reverse Missions have been release. The earlier missions are much easier than the later missions in terms of difficult, creating a "somewhat" scaling of difficulty. These missions also provide a bit more diversity in which some units may be restricting and you can sometimes "choose" which units you want to work with.

Link to First Terran Broodwar Reverse Mission: http://www.staredit.net/sc1db/file/5408/

Side Note: EUD triggers have not been used in ANY of these missions. I will also refrain from using them in the Zerg BW Reverse missions too (including ones with heroes). I will instead have an "copy" of the hero attack (with reduced health) and also have it play a "halluination" animation when it dies (along with its standard corpse since there are no EUD/mods). A few reasons for this is to make the triggers easier to manage (when buffing/nerfing) as well as to enable saves. While I don't use saves, it has come to my attention that other people do save as they play the game so this should fix the issue.

Here are some screenshots of those missions:






In terms of updating these missions, sadly I won't be able to be as responsive as I was for the Original Starcraft Reverse Campaign. This is primarily due to the combination of nearing graduation (exams/projects) as well as job searching. Furthermore, I recently have just been feeling generally ill due to stress and other complications. Sorry! I'll probably only update if major bugs occur, otherwise I'll be doing minor updates once the Zerg Reverse Missions are done.



None.

Nov 18 2021, 7:25 am Zincoshine Post #28



Quote from TheHappy115
job searching. Furthermore, I recently have just been feeling generally ill due to stress and other complications. Sorry!
Welcome to my life.... And good luck. Despite 3.5 years of experience in my current job I'm getting rejections from everything I apply for despite how well I fit for the positions I'm applying for. The job market is insane and it's practically impossible to get a job as a programmer now. I'm about ready to just give up and stay where I am for the foreseeable future.



None.

Jan 10 2022, 8:26 am TheHappy115 Post #29



Zerg Broodwar Reverse Campaign has been release. Furthermore, a few changes have been done for a couple of Protoss Broodwar Missions.

Link of first Mission: http://www.staredit.net/sc1db/file/5554/

Here are screenshots of the Zerg Broodwar Reverse Campaign:




Furthermore, these Broodwar Zerg missions are the most "heavily" changed or edited than the other missions. Here is a basic rundown of said missions:

1) No Build Mission, skipped
2) Raynor's forces stick around. Dead Elite Zerg can be "regained" using PSI Emitter. Can disable the Zerg/PSI Emitter by rebuilding Power Generators
3) Protoss Bases are present. Only the Protoss (not Zerg) Income matters. Destroyed AI Command Centers are infested instead and create "custom" Infested Units (Civilian and Marine -> modified off of Infested Kerrigan and Infested Duran with SC2 WoL Infested Unit Stats)
4) Kerrigan has a resource cache and sends attack waves equal to 4x Insane AI. Once cache ends, remaining units will attack over a long duration and only will remain with 1 "difficult" AI
5) Surprise attack is over by time mission starts. Fenix and Duke will actively attack Zerg bases.
6) Must set up Terran Base (ally Zerg set up their base too). Making scientists will give access to Zerg forces.
7) Duran will set up garrisons at captured Beacons. These Beacons can be recaptured.
8) Combination of both Protoss and Zerg enemy forces (instead of just Zerg and DTs)
9) Not much
10) Can choose which of the 3 Bases you want (nothing else much changed, although High Templar Storm energy is set to default instead of custom 100 amount)

Note: N0 EUD triggers are used during the Broodwar Reverse Missions.

Thanks everyone who enjoyed the series. I learned a bunch from this and originally just wanted to make a really quick series (mainly for myself that I would just simply share). However, with later missions, I found more enjoyment in refining them and adding more "unique" mechanics versus just imply destroy stuff.

In the future, I am thinking of making Coop-Style maps (similar to SC2 coop). I have made some before but realize certain mistakes and also learned of alternative ways to make "abilities" without greatly causing issues (this is both with enemy AI and trigger manipulation). These missions will be 3 player maps involving commanders with passive abilities (most likely 2 abilities that affect only the player and 1 that effects allies too for a total of 3). These maps will most likely be made at a MUCH later date though.



None.

Jan 10 2022, 8:41 am Oh_Man Post #30

Find Me On Discord (Brood War UMS Community & Staredit Network)

Congrats on the release




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