Staredit Network > Forums > SC1 Map Showcase > Topic: [Campaign] Unlikely Allies
[Campaign] Unlikely Allies
Jun 28 2021, 5:55 pm
By: Omen  

Jul 15 2021, 7:27 pm Omen Post #21



Quote from Andrea Rosa
Mission 3

Standard but well-executed installation map. The Dark Templar was rather useless, given the presence of Overlords, but the High Templar was definitely handy (indeed, I don't know if this mission can be beaten without him). The intro felt somewhat strange to me: we see Raynor and Fenix entering the base (which is coherent with the outcome of Mission 2) but there are already many player-controlled units inside; maybe it would be more logical to start with the two heroes into the base, and the other units following them... This is just a minor nitpick though. The map manages to convey tension, since the player must face sizeable attack waves, and some skill is required to properly cast Psionic Storm without hitting our units in the process. I have one suggestion about the map design: while the layout is pretty good, this abandoned installation looks a bit too much pristine; you could use more shattered doodads and also add some Marine corpses here and there - these little details enhance immersion.

Mission 4

The Insane AI used by the Brown Terrans is intimidating at first, but once the player figures out where they come from and fortifies his base in the right spots, it's only a matter of pushing through the Yellow forces. There's no time to waste though, because the resources are scarce and must be managed wisely before Brown gets out of control (I liked this aspect). I don't know if this was intentional, but I could by-pass the final Yellow defenses by circumventing their outpost, which was somewhat anticlimatic after such a well-balanced mission. Finally, I noticed the unusual way you set up your location for Bunkers: as far as my experience goes, it's always better to use individual locations for each Bunker, regardless if 'preserve trigger' is used or not (you didn't use it, for this reason most of the Yellow Bunkers were empty when I attacked them). If you want to prevent infantry units from abandoning their Bunkers, you should use 'preserve trigger', but at that point the use of individual locations is mandatory, or else the AI will go crazy trying to manage multiple Bunkers contained in a single, large location. Some designers also advise to use modified hero units (Jim Raynor and Gui Montag) for Bunkers, because these units are ignored by the AI, thus making 'preserve trigger' superfluous, but personally I've always used standard infantry units without any problem.

So far I'm enjoying this campaign and I can't wait to see what the remaining two missions have in store for me. Unfortunately I'm busy these days, so it may take a while for me to get back to you, but have faith.

Thank you Andrea. The only doubt I have about using 'preserve trigger' for the bunkers is whether if the AI's behavior is altered or not, as Terran AIs usually empty the bunkers and use infantry units in another way...



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Jul 16 2021, 11:10 am Zincoshine Post #22



I've played mission 5 now.

This started off easy but then became incredibly hard. It took me several attempts until I finally found a strategy that worked, a counterclockwise rush right from the start which allows you to destroy the insane terran AI before it gets out of control. Overall, pretty ok once you find a way to win fast enough.

I've also just finished mission 6 now.

This is one of the quickest missions I've ever played, it was quite intense competing with the 2 insane zerg AIs to see who could reach the statis cell. An expansion rush followed by a quickly made siege tank force did the job just on time.

Edit:

And now I've finally finished the last mission which was overall just an enjoyable macro mission with one big flaw. The flaw was that you used the destroy all enemy buildings win condition instead of the destroy all enemy factories win condition. Because of that, I had to waste time searching all over the map for what ultimately turned out to be a lone refinery made by the green zerg. This is the primary flaw with Retribution and there is no need to introduce this flaw into your campaign unless you are trying to parody Retribution. Aside from that, minor grammar mistakes with the mission briefing and the epilogue

I'm going to proofread the text in the mission briefing and the epilogue for you soon :) stay tuned for a big reply coming soon.......

I've also made an evaluation of your campaign on my fan campaign list. Congratulations, your campaign has gotten a recommendation! The score is 72% but this can be improved if you update your campaign. :)

Post has been edited 6 time(s), last time on Jul 18 2021, 6:57 am by Zincoshine.



None.

Jul 17 2021, 11:49 am Omen Post #23



Quote from Zincoshine
I've played mission 4 now.

This started off easy but then became incredibly hard. It took me several attempts until I finally found a strategy that worked, a counterclockwise rush right from the start which allows you to destroy the insane terran AI before it gets out of control. Overall, pretty ok once you find a way to win fast enough.

I've also just finished mission 5 now.

This is one of the quickest missions I've ever played, it was quite intense competing with the 2 insane zerg AIs to see who could reach the statis cell. An expansion rush followed by a quickly made siege tank force did the job just on time.

Edit:

And now I've finally finished the last mission which was overall just an enjoyable macro mission with one big flaw. The flaw was that you used the destroy all enemy buildings win condition instead of the destroy all enemy factories win condition. Because of that, I had to waste time searching all over the map for what ultimately turned out to be a lone refinery made by the green zerg. This is the primary flaw with Retribution and there is no need to introduce this flaw into your campaign unless you are trying to parody Retribution. Aside from that, minor grammar mistakes with the mission briefing and the epilogue

I'm going to proofread the text in the mission briefing and the epilogue for you soon :) stay tuned for a big reply coming soon.......

I've also made an evaluation of your campaign on my fan campaign list. Congratulations, your campaign has gotten a recommendation! The score is 72% but this can be improved if you update your campaign. :)

Thank you Zincoshine. I'm going to fix these problems in the next update.
In the meantime I followed your suggestion about the orange Zerg in Mission 3 and added a new mission to explain where those Zerg come from. This map is already available for download together with the other maps in the latest version of the ZIP archive (see 1st post); if you want to test it, you are welcome.



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Jul 17 2021, 7:28 pm Zincoshine Post #24



Alright, Here is a improved version of the mission 1 mission briefing. Keep in mind only the dialogue text changes are relevant

Briefing triggers




epilogue

EPILOGUE
The UED was forced away from Korhal, thanks to the efforts of Kerrigan and
her unlikely allies. Arcturus Mengsk proclaimed himself
Emperor of the Terran Dominion again, restoring his power in
the capital city of Augustgrad.
Raynor and Fenix, tired of fighting so many enemies, decided to
stay on Korhal for a short while, to celebrate the victory just obtained.
Unfortunately, Kerrigan's allies were about to discover what it meant now that
their usefulness to her goals was at an end. The time for her to show her "True colors" had come....

Don't try quoting this, it is right at the character limit.

Post has been edited 5 time(s), last time on Jul 18 2021, 6:41 pm by NudeRaider. Reason: please avoid walls of text



None.

Jul 18 2021, 6:59 am Zincoshine Post #25



OK so what I originally wrote as missions 4, 5, and last mission earlier were actually missions 5, 6, and last mission. I've corrected my earlier comments on the last 3 maps I played. I'll play the true mission 4 in a while....



None.

Jul 18 2021, 8:29 am Omen Post #26



Thank you so much! I'm going to review every dialogue in the next update.
I'm also waiting for some feedback about the new Mission 4 before I publish the next version of the maps.



None.

Jul 18 2021, 1:31 pm Zincoshine Post #27



I've tried playing the new mission 4.... You need to disable spawn broodlings on that map or change the AI. Holy shit I have never been harassed so much by zerg queens. I can't get a functioning army because the queens just pop half my units.

The mission briefing for mission 4 has no grammar or spelling problems so that's good...

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jul 18 2021, 1:38 pm by Zincoshine.



None.

Jul 18 2021, 4:37 pm Omen Post #28



Quote from Zincoshine
I've tried playing the new mission 4.... You need to disable spawn broodlings on that map or change the AI. Holy shit I have never been harassed so much by zerg queens. I can't get a functioning army because the queens just pop half my units.

The mission briefing for mission 4 has no grammar or spelling problems so that's good...

Yeah, I tested the map myself and I experienced the same problem; maybe changing the AI difficulty from 'difficult' to 'medium' it should be better, as Queens do not use 'Spawn Broodling' with medium AI.



None.

Jul 18 2021, 6:39 pm Zincoshine Post #29



Then it would be too easy. Just remove that ability... there is a setting that allows you to disable spells and buildings for specific teams.



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Jul 18 2021, 7:03 pm Omen Post #30



Quote from Zincoshine
Then it would be too easy. Just remove that ability... there is a setting that allows you to disable spells and buildings for specific teams.

Maybe you are right: I also changed the AI for Mission 2, which was originally set to medium, because when I tested the map for the first time (before the first release) I had found it too simple to beat.



None.

Jul 18 2021, 7:41 pm Andrea Rosa Post #31

Just a glitch in the Matrix

You CAN disable Spawn Broodling on Difficult AI, it won't hinder the script in any way. Disabling other abilities may result in unpredictable effects: for example, I've experienced that if you disable Spider Mines while running Terran Campaign Difficult, the AI won't be able to upgrade any kind of weapon and armor past level 2.




Jul 20 2021, 11:03 am Omen Post #32



Quote from Andrea Rosa
You CAN disable Spawn Broodling on Difficult AI, it won't hinder the script in any way. Disabling other abilities may result in unpredictable effects: for example, I've experienced that if you disable Spider Mines while running Terran Campaign Difficult, the AI won't be able to upgrade any kind of weapon and armor past level 2.

Thank you for your tip Andrea. I'll keep it in mind also for my (possible) future projects...



None.

Sep 19 2021, 5:42 pm Andrea Rosa Post #33

Just a glitch in the Matrix

Alright, this took much longer than anticipated, but I've finally resumed playing your campaign. Sorry for the unintended delay.


Mission 4 (newly added since my last post)

At first, upon reading the briefing, I thought that this new mission was not really necessary for the sake of the story, however after playing it I'm glad for the addition. Inattentive players may dismiss this as a recycled map, while it's actually an expanded map, which is always a cool concept if done in the right way, and you did it in the right way. ​I'm playing the most recent version in which Spawn Broodling has been disabled, so I wasn't harassed by Queens as much as Zincoshine reported (Ensnare was still a persistent nuisance, but it was totally manageable). Luckily I never ran into Plague, but you should probably disable it as well, because resources are quite limited, hence the player can't afford extensive reparations. Speaking of resources, If I were you I would place the Command Center closer to the minerals, because most players will instinctively lift it to get there anyway. If you want to hinder mining and/or harvesting operations while playing as Terran, you can use unbuildable terrain, but given the layout and design of your map in that particular spot, I would simply move that Command Center to an optimal position, at least in relation to the minerals. The available resources were ok for me (they are not overabundant, so the player has to manage them wisely), but I can foresee many players desperately asking for a second readily available Vespene Geyser: maybe you could add a low-yield one (1500 or less) in the Zerg base with the Infested Command Center. In this regard, something I liked a lot was the Orange Zerg player actively training Infested Terrans, something which doesn't happen very often with the default AI scripts.


Mission 6 (previously Mission 5)

I was very puzzled by the setting of this mission: it supposedly takes place on a frozen moon, yet you decided to use the Ash World tileset for some reason... What am I missing here? Is high lava supposed to represent glaciers? That would be an almost acceptable solution for a SCM map, but here you are working with Brood War, there's no excuse for not using the Ice tileset, even though you probably didn't want to use it twice in a row. Well, there's a simple solution to this inconsistency: just change it to a rocky moon, add some impact craters here and there, and you're basically done - this is facilitated by the fact that Moria officially has two moons, Brutus and Vito, and neither of them are icy worlds, so in this case there's no reason to re-invent the lore, just follow it. This being said, I loved this map, especially how the player must race against the clock and the fact that you have shared vision with the two Zerg players, so their progress can be monitored. Very good!


Now I only have the final mission to play - hopefully it won't take me two more months to finish your campaign.



EDIT: Upon re-examining the maps, I've noticed that you followed my advice concerning Bunkers (individual locations + preserve trigger). However, the locations are too small to function correctly: when the AI will try to unload the Bunkers, the units will find themselves outside the location, thus making it impossible for the game to detect them; as a consequence, preserve trigger will not work. This is the almost ideal size for Bunker locations:



Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Sep 19 2021, 7:49 pm by Andrea Rosa.




Sep 22 2021, 11:37 pm Andrea Rosa Post #34

Just a glitch in the Matrix

Mission 7

You definitely saved the best for last, this mission is almost perfect both in terms of layout and gameplay flow. The resources are very well balanced, making this map suitable both for aggressive and defensive players, though an early attack on one of the two Green Zerg bases is advised to get a more steady income. I didn't discover the Vespene Geyser in the corner just north of the Protoss base, it would have surely helped me a lot (probably you are being too generous with that "secret" geyser, in my opinion it contains too much gas, and those who will find it will get an excessive advantage). Excellent choice of AIs for the two Zerg Broods, they work fantastically together. The Ultralisk charges by the Orange Zerg were scary, luckily for me the first attack wave got stuck for a while behind a cluster of newly built Green Zerg buildings (the choke point with Zerg colonies and Terran Bunkers in the middle of the map), so I could see them coming and prepare my defenses, otherwise they would have surely annihilated me. If you want to raise the difficulty a bit, you could make the White Terrans start with some upgrades and/or special abilities already researched, since they become active relatively late in the game, and most players will be fully upgraded by that point. Having both Raynor and Duke in their Battlecruisers gives a feel of might, but is also somewhat redundant... I would have preferred to have Duke in his Siege Tank, this would have further diversified the two forces I was commanding, but it's just a matter of personal taste. The only real problem with this mission is the victory condition of destroying all enemy buildings, which is always a tedious task (at first I didn't win because I forgot to destroy the Green Defiler Mound). I would recommend to change the triggers so that the player only needs to destroy "factories" in order to win: you can keep "Eliminate all the enemy forces" as stated objective, so the players will still try to destroy everything but they will not be punished for leaving some meaningless buildings behind.


Overall, I really enjoyed Unlikely Allies: as a first time effort it's quite impressive, and it's definitely going to reside in my Good Folder. Well done mate!

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Sep 23 2021, 12:53 am by Andrea Rosa.




Sep 29 2021, 11:02 am Omen Post #35



Quote from Andrea Rosa
Mission 7

You definitely saved the best for last, this mission is almost perfect both in terms of layout and gameplay flow. The resources are very well balanced, making this map suitable both for aggressive and defensive players, though an early attack on one of the two Green Zerg bases is advised to get a more steady income. I didn't discover the Vespene Geyser in the corner just north of the Protoss base, it would have surely helped me a lot (probably you are being too generous with that "secret" geyser, in my opinion it contains too much gas, and those who will find it will get an excessive advantage). Excellent choice of AIs for the two Zerg Broods, they work fantastically together. The Ultralisk charges by the Orange Zerg were scary, luckily for me the first attack wave got stuck for a while behind a cluster of newly built Green Zerg buildings (the choke point with Zerg colonies and Terran Bunkers in the middle of the map), so I could see them coming and prepare my defenses, otherwise they would have surely annihilated me. If you want to raise the difficulty a bit, you could make the White Terrans start with some upgrades and/or special abilities already researched, since they become active relatively late in the game, and most players will be fully upgraded by that point. Having both Raynor and Duke in their Battlecruisers gives a feel of might, but is also somewhat redundant... I would have preferred to have Duke in his Siege Tank, this would have further diversified the two forces I was commanding, but it's just a matter of personal taste. The only real problem with this mission is the victory condition of destroying all enemy buildings, which is always a tedious task (at first I didn't win because I forgot to destroy the Green Defiler Mound). I would recommend to change the triggers so that the player only needs to destroy "factories" in order to win: you can keep "Eliminate all the enemy forces" as stated objective, so the players will still try to destroy everything but they will not be punished for leaving some meaningless buildings behind.


Overall, I really enjoyed Unlikely Allies: as a first time effort it's quite impressive, and it's definitely going to reside in my Good Folder. Well done mate!

Thanks for your hints Andrea.
I'm surely going to fix the minor issues of Mission 4.
About Mission 6, you got the point: I confirm the high lava terrain was supposed to represent ice; I didn't want to use the Ice world tileset because it would have seemed that the mission was set on Braxis as the previous one (and it isn't). Anyway, the idea of changing the terrain so that the environment looks more like a "rocky" one makes perfectly sense.
Regarding Mission 7, I'm going to check the victory conditions, but I'm pretty sure I already set them to "destroy all enemy factories" (instead of all enemy buildings). The choice of using both Hyperion and Norad III may seem a bit redundant, but I think it's justified by the fact that this mission is supposed to take place right before Zerg level 5 ("The True Colors"), in which Duke appears as a Battlecruiser. Maybe I can also modify the placing of buildings in the Green bases, so that the Orange Ultralisk wave does not get stuck... :teehee:

EDIT: out of curiosity, I tried to replace the Norad III with Duke's Siege tank as you suggest, and I agree with you that in this way there's less redundancy in the player's starting forces; also, I don't need to use the Yellow player as a rescuable one anymore, as I don't need to distinguish between the two Battlecruisers!

PS when you have time, if you want to have a look on my second campaign work (which is, in fact, a prequel to "Unlikely Allies"), you can find it here. Don't mind the comments already published in the discussion, as they refer to an older version of the maps, and in the meantime I did massive changes, so now it's a different story. Enjoy!

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Sep 29 2021, 12:53 pm by Omen.



None.

Oct 1 2021, 1:10 pm Andrea Rosa Post #36

Just a glitch in the Matrix

You probably already know this, but in case you don't, there are a couple of things to take into account when using Duke's Tank:

- The defeat condition for losing Duke must be set for both tank modes.
- Other triggers involving Duke (including lines of dialogue) must be set for both tank modes, along with an exclusion switch that will prevent such triggers from firing twice when you siege or unsiege his tank.

Of course I will play Vanguard of Aiur, and I'll make sure to get the most recent version.




Oct 1 2021, 1:45 pm Omen Post #37



Quote from Andrea Rosa
You probably already know this, but in case you don't, there are a couple of things to take into account when using Duke's Tank:

- The defeat condition for losing Duke must be set for both tank modes.
- Other triggers involving Duke (including lines of dialogue) must be set for both tank modes, along with an exclusion switch that will prevent such triggers from firing twice when you siege or unsiege his tank.

Of course I will play Vanguard of Aiur, and I'll make sure to get the most recent version.

Yeah, I already know... I remember that such a problem occurs in Blizzard's "Biting the Bullet" (one of the original Terran cut missions), in which the same message by Duke was repeated twice, depending if he was in tank or siege mode. Fortunately, in my case there's just one transmission from Duke at the very start of the mission, when he is clearly in Tank mode (so there's no need for a double trigger).



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