Staredit Network > Forums > SC1 Map Showcase > Topic: Impossible Ultraviolet
Impossible Ultraviolet
May 4 2021, 6:47 am
By: Ultraviolet  

Nov 29 2022, 11:22 pm Ultraviolet Post #21

Don't stop till you get enough

Quote from Sie_Sayoka
I played this with the cloaked scout hero. It's pretty fun but it can feel unfair at times.

Hey, thanks for playing and for the feedback! I must ask, did you play with a team or on your own? It's really only intended to be played with a group and is balanced as such. I did make some handicap bonuses for having fewer players on the team, but this only provides additional help down to 3 players and it's not really a complete substitute for having a good group.

Quote from Sie_Sayoka
  • There's no unit to hotkey to stack air units. Having a unit somewhere on the map that you can include with the control group would be great.

Actually there is a unit specifically for this, although it's not made super apparent. If you look along the bottom row, you'll see a spot where there's a single invincible observer, this can be used for stacking air units.

Quote from Sie_Sayoka
[list]
  • The computer attacks your units at the beginning of levels. Making the starting locations further away from computer units would mitigate this.

  • Are you sure it's not the timed unit spawns that are coming after you at the beginning of levels? There is admittedly limited space available, but I've tested a lot and in my experience, pre-placed units won't attack you at the start locations if you don't attack them first. But there's a second mechanic which is that each level has progressively harder timed spawns that hunt players down. It's intended to increase the difficulty and generally feedback has been positive on that feature.

    Quote from Sie_Sayoka
    • You could also have separate deployments for the hero units and the squads. So you could hold off on choosing a squad until later within the level.

    I did consider this at one point, even made it that way for the final boss fight for a while, but the general public found it confusing and didn't like it. A lot of my decisions were a balancing act between making the game as customized as it is and making it easy to pick up by the public. It's modeled after Impossible Cyrus (and then taken 1000x further lol) so many of my testers were in a set mentality of how things should be.

    Quote from Sie_Sayoka
    • Hallucination hotkey is X instead of the default L.

    This one is intentional. Frustrating as it is, EUDs disallow the use of custom hotkeys. If I had the option to do both custom hotkeys and default SC hotkeys, I would. Older versions just used the default SC key mapping, but it's not very efficient to have to reach all the way over to L just to cast some hallucinations. X is much easier to hit left handed (which is how almost everyone plays).There's a few other spells that had their hotkeys changed in similar ways, like lockdown and irradiate for example. It takes a little getting used to, but once you're familiar with it, it's a much smoother hotkey experience.

    Quote from Sie_Sayoka
    • Computer feedback wrecks all of the spellcasters. With lockdown it's at least fair somewhat as you can use restore but feedback will 1 shot.

    It definitely sucks to get your units feedbacked, but it's all part of the challenge of the game. One thing to keep in mind is that I largely developed the map for a crowd that plays it every night, so without those extra challenges, they get bored quickly. Even with the challenge level where it is, they occasionally wreck the map even on Impossible Plus mode.

    Quote from Sie_Sayoka
    • Air units make most of the levels trivial as you can just fly past large sections. Especially later with upgraded heroes where there's not enough antiair near spawners.

    I dunno if I'd agree with trivial, but I am aware of the problem you described. Particularly with the hero you chose, Shadowcraft, it becomes more apparent as that is a perma-cloaked air unit with exceptional anti-ground capabilities. I did spend some time working on the issue and found that it would take a lot of time and significant revamping of systems with a lot of testing inbetween to fully correct it. I unfortunately don't have that kind of time to dedicate to the project anymore, I developed it during the height of COVID while I was getting paid to sit and home and do whatever I wanted. I'm back to work these days.

    Quote from Sie_Sayoka
    • Brown and black are too close of a color match to instantly identify which unit is a hero.

    You would have really hated the original version with no color distinction between enemy heroes and regular units :lol: In all seriousness, I swapped the colors around a lot of times trying to find the perfect match that no one would complain about. Never found it. I ended up settling on brown and black because that pairing seemed to get the fewest complaints and it looks good to me *shrugs

    Quote from Sie_Sayoka
    Overall I'd say feedback would be the largest issue. In the later levels I ended up choosing squads that didn't have any spellcasters since they wouldn't die from feedback.

    One additional thought on this: since it's a hero based game, spellcasters have the potential to make some of the biggest differences. Defensive matrix or hallucination on a hero can go a long way, restoring heroes in a pinch is a godsend, locking down that pesky Elite BC, stasising an irradiated hero, all potential game changers. The spellcasters being a little extra squishy is a part of the trade off. I honestly get more pissed off with all the medics optical flaring me on round 4 than I do with the feedbacks. I made all the player heroes classified as Hero units so at least you are safe from feedback with your hero. That's as much mercy as I have to give :P



    None.

    Nov 30 2022, 6:18 am Sie_Sayoka Post #22



    Quote from Ultraviolet
    Quote from Sie_Sayoka
    I played this with the cloaked scout hero. It's pretty fun but it can feel unfair at times.

    Hey, thanks for playing and for the feedback! I must ask, did you play with a team or on your own? It's really only intended to be played with a group and is balanced as such. I did make some handicap bonuses for having fewer players on the team, but this only provides additional help down to 3 players and it's not really a complete substitute for having a good group.
    I played in a group but admittedly half of them were not good. It was also on normal mode.
    Quote
    Quote from Sie_Sayoka
    • There's no unit to hotkey to stack air units. Having a unit somewhere on the map that you can include with the control group would be great.

    Actually there is a unit specifically for this, although it's not made super apparent. If you look along the bottom row, you'll see a spot where there's a single invincible observer, this can be used for stacking air units.
    I did not see this. Glad to know it's there. I looked in the bottom row but only saw civs, it may be a good idea to move the observer near the gateway or upgrades.
    Quote
    Quote from Sie_Sayoka
    [list]
  • The computer attacks your units at the beginning of levels. Making the starting locations further away from computer units would mitigate this.

  • Are you sure it's not the timed unit spawns that are coming after you at the beginning of levels? There is admittedly limited space available, but I've tested a lot and in my experience, pre-placed units won't attack you at the start locations if you don't attack them first. But there's a second mechanic which is that each level has progressively harder timed spawns that hunt players down. It's intended to increase the difficulty and generally feedback has been positive on that feature.
    I didn't check specifically if it was the spawns or not that attacked it may have just been my teammates attacking stuff which aggroed the comp while I was scanning. I believe this is also present in BW in general where spellcasters will seek out stuff to use spells on although I'm not sure if they need to be attacked first.
    Quote
    Quote from Sie_Sayoka
    • You could also have separate deployments for the hero units and the squads. So you could hold off on choosing a squad until later within the level.

    I did consider this at one point, even made it that way for the final boss fight for a while, but the general public found it confusing and didn't like it. A lot of my decisions were a balancing act between making the game as customized as it is and making it easy to pick up by the public. It's modeled after Impossible Cyrus (and then taken 1000x further lol) so many of my testers were in a set mentality of how things should be.

    Quote from Sie_Sayoka
    • Hallucination hotkey is X instead of the default L.

    This one is intentional. Frustrating as it is, EUDs disallow the use of custom hotkeys. If I had the option to do both custom hotkeys and default SC hotkeys, I would. Older versions just used the default SC key mapping, but it's not very efficient to have to reach all the way over to L just to cast some hallucinations. X is much easier to hit left handed (which is how almost everyone plays).There's a few other spells that had their hotkeys changed in similar ways, like lockdown and irradiate for example. It takes a little getting used to, but once you're familiar with it, it's a much smoother hotkey experience.
    Fair enough.
    Quote
    Quote from Sie_Sayoka
    • Computer feedback wrecks all of the spellcasters. With lockdown it's at least fair somewhat as you can use restore but feedback will 1 shot.

    It definitely sucks to get your units feedbacked, but it's all part of the challenge of the game. One thing to keep in mind is that I largely developed the map for a crowd that plays it every night, so without those extra challenges, they get bored quickly. Even with the challenge level where it is, they occasionally wreck the map even on Impossible Plus mode.
    That's fair. Unfortunately getting decent impossible players is becoming rarer these days.
    Quote
    Quote from Sie_Sayoka
    • Air units make most of the levels trivial as you can just fly past large sections. Especially later with upgraded heroes where there's not enough antiair near spawners.

    I dunno if I'd agree with trivial, but I am aware of the problem you described. Particularly with the hero you chose, Shadowcraft, it becomes more apparent as that is a perma-cloaked air unit with exceptional anti-ground capabilities. I did spend some time working on the issue and found that it would take a lot of time and significant revamping of systems with a lot of testing inbetween to fully correct it. I unfortunately don't have that kind of time to dedicate to the project anymore, I developed it during the height of COVID while I was getting paid to sit and home and do whatever I wanted. I'm back to work these days.
    I agree it would take a lot of reworking to get it balanced.
    Quote
    Quote from Sie_Sayoka
    • Brown and black are too close of a color match to instantly identify which unit is a hero.

    You would have really hated the original version with no color distinction between enemy heroes and regular units :lol: In all seriousness, I swapped the colors around a lot of times trying to find the perfect match that no one would complain about. Never found it. I ended up settling on brown and black because that pairing seemed to get the fewest complaints and it looks good to me *shrugs
    I'm curious about the kind of things people complained about. The colors should be easily distinguishable such as red/green which I've seen in some maps.
    Quote
    Quote from Sie_Sayoka
    Overall I'd say feedback would be the largest issue. In the later levels I ended up choosing squads that didn't have any spellcasters since they wouldn't die from feedback.

    One additional thought on this: since it's a hero based game, spellcasters have the potential to make some of the biggest differences. Defensive matrix or hallucination on a hero can go a long way, restoring heroes in a pinch is a godsend, locking down that pesky Elite BC, stasising an irradiated hero, all potential game changers. The spellcasters being a little extra squishy is a part of the trade off. I honestly get more pissed off with all the medics optical flaring me on round 4 than I do with the feedbacks. I made all the player heroes classified as Hero units so at least you are safe from feedback with your hero. That's as much mercy as I have to give :P
    [/quote]
    That's fine. I'm sure if I played it with experienced players things would have gone much smoother.



    None.

    Jan 12 2023, 1:17 pm shuishen49 Post #23



    we need chinese!!!!



    None.

    Jan 13 2023, 2:52 am Ultraviolet Post #24

    Don't stop till you get enough

    Quote from shuishen49
    we need chinese!!!!

    I have considered trying to find someone to help with a Korean translation, but hadn't considered Chinese yet. Didn't know that was a popular alternative



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