Hey Gang

So time has come for another build, this time for my girlfriend. I took a precursory look at some stuff, and came up with this:
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i7-7700K 4.2GHz Quad-Core Processor ($299.00 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: be quiet! - Pure Rock Slim 35.1 CFM CPU Cooler ($23.88 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: Gigabyte - GA-B250M-DS3H Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($50.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory ($139.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($159.89 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: Gigabyte - GeForce GTX 1050 Ti 4GB Video Card ($154.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Fractal Design - Define Mini C with Window MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($98.36 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA - SuperNOVA G3 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($74.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $1002.07
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-10-02 18:38 EDT-0400

As for planned usage, we play diablo 3 together and she's been stuck on super slow laptops for a long time so I wanted to help her get something nice. Also she is an astrophysics professor so some scientific computing isn't out of the question, so I figured I'd spring for the i7-7700, unless you guys have better justification for something else. But I was wondering if you guys had a better idea of what could be sacrificed without too much loss, to get from the listed price of $1002 down to about $750 or so.

Find out if the scientific computing she is likely to do can be GPU accelerated. If so, then you don't need an i7.

She doesn't know CUDA or OpenCL. I'm willing to shell out for the 7700 anyway, since I've been so happy with my 6700. It's most of the other stuff that I lack the expertise in value-per-price-point to make any kind of definitive call on.

You're buying a CPU that is unlocked but the motherboard doesn't allow overclocking.

Need a z270 chipset for that.

Outside of that the video card is on the lower side but that may not even matter of she doesn't play games or plays at a low resolution.

For Diablo III this build will be great. If you want to savw money get the 7700 without the K.

IF YOU WAIT UNTIL 10/5/17 INTEL IS RELEASING THEIR COFFEE LAKE CPU. AN I3 HAS 4 CORES, I5 HAS 6 AND I7 HAS 6 CORES WITH HYPERTHREADING!!!

I used to build computers for my job and its still a huge hobby of mine. I'm replying from my phone. If You have any questions I'll reply tomorrow from my desktop where I wont be may.

If you can hold on a little longer--maybe until black friday--with your purchase you can likely get 2 more cores for (almost) free. The 8th Gen Core-i is a response to AMD finally catching up (at least for multithreaded), so they offer more value for the money.

Then again, you mentioned planning to do calculations with the CPU. It's not something I'd recommend because all heavy computational load should be done by GPU by now. GPUs are so much faster it's not even funny. Like 20-100 times faster. At that point it doesn't matter which CPU you get. So do invest some time finding out if that stuff can't be done in parallel with the interfaces you mentioned. If not, why go for an i7 instead of i5? It's not faster for single threaded.
Unless the calculations can be done in parallel, but nobody bothered yet to write a GPU interface for the software... But then you should go the AMD route. Even more cores - they are dedicated for this stuff.
--it really comes down to the exact scenario what offers the best bang for the buck.

Although you are right, if you just wanna blindly buy a CPU that's decent all around i7 is the way to go. But Gen.8 please.
I just changed the CPU to the non-k variant because that's what I'd recommend. Is your gf really going to dabble into overclocking territory? She's not even gaming, so for what? Speed up 'dem Fouriers right and proper, right?


Onward. I like the cooler.


Pauper already mentioned the mobo mishap. Also, as a general rule, try to avoid µATX, especially if you have no need for the smallness and want the thing to last and be able to comfortably upgrade.


Memory is alright. I just found one that's a little cheaper with better timings. No need to go for "quality RAM" or "good brands" (if you're not overclocking!) because if they work, they work - they also don't age like other stuff.
Also just one thing to consider: While 16GB is recommended, you can still get by with 8GB at least for a year or two. I'm pointing this out because RAM prices are ridiculous right now, and are bound to go down eventually.


Storage is great. I guess I don't need to elaborate on storage space and SSD/HDD combo.


Again I agree with Pauper, the GPU is smallish. It will be more than enough for D3 since it's not a demanding game by any means. But times change and in 3 years you might have another game you're playing. If you go for just 1 tier higher, you place yourself in the midrange gaming. And cards there are notorious to last a long time for medium to light gaming. The upgrade is just $40 but will probably save you from having to buy a new card for another 2-3 years if your goal remains gaming at medium settings and 1080p. If that's likely going to change at some point, the econonomic choice is 1050 (no Ti) and upgrade when it happens.


Case: Ugh. I know it's an emotional choice and it looks cool, performs well but there's cheaper choices for that look. Theoretically your gf doesn't need good airflow or cable management. Or even a window (right?), so you could just pick the cheapest off the shelf that you like and be done with it. But I know your inner geek wants something classy. So why not really go for it with the one I included? (also available in black)
Also while mine doesn't have it, I'd recommend an USB-C slot for future proofing. I just couldn't find a good one quickly.


Nice PSU. But overpowered. Light gaming, right? Might probably do with 400W. Get 500-550W to have some headroom and account for aging. Here's a review for the one I picked, for all you Corsair doubters.


All there things considered, here's my build based off of yours: (But remember to wait for Coffee-Lake!)


Sorry your initial build wasn't ridiculous, so I couldn't scrape off much of it. But here's an alternative that cuts the corners I mentioned.

Not quite under $750, but because starting with 8GB RAM doesn't make sense at all (would save $75!) if you only have 2 memory banks. You'd cap yourself to 16GB or have to throw the 8GB out at some point. If you get a 4-bank mobo this would be an option.

Overall it should perform about the same as the Intel build, but isn't as well rounded. The devil is in the details:
- CPU is bad for single threading and even a bit worse than the i7-7700 on multithreading; hopeless against an i7-8700.
- no backup GPU in the CPU
- RAM will be single channel initially, dual channel at best when upgraded later (due to only 2 banks on the mobo)
- SSD allows only 1-2 games on it for fast loading times
- Case: No idea, actually. Just went for something cheap that didn't immediately strike me as horrible.
- PSU isn't modular -> excess cables lying in the case.

Vrael,
Get us some details on her scientific computing stuff, specific software she might use, ect. There may be a value proposition in Ryzen at the moment and you'd best find out before you buy if its the right road to take. Once we have that figured out I'll draw something up.

Nice, this is why I came to you guys first.

Pauper - thanks for catching that, I didn't even think about the overclocking. Also my gut is definitely yes to wait a few days or a week for the coffee lake cores. Thanks for the save there!

Nude - regarding the cores, single-core-single-thread performance is still the most important niche for a lot of scientific computing. See my answer to Ex below about the type of computing she does. I think you guys are right, I doubt we will be overclocking, and if the price differential is big enough and the performance differential is small enough between say, a 7700K and a 7700 then I'd be willing to go for the non-K variant. But I'm also OK with 'blindly buying a good i7' because its worked out for me in the past

Regarding MicroATX - I thought I'd need MicroATX to get a not-full-sized monster case. Do normal ATX boards fit inside of non-full tower cases?

Good point on the RAM. I think I'd like to stick with 16GB, but yeah we don't need ridiculous cas latency or anything. Good & cheap will work.

SSD - I think for simplicity I was just going to go with a single 500GB SSD. She has a 2TB external for other storage needs and we can always add more later.

GPU - I think 'smallish' is OK. We're probably not going 4k resolution yet for anything, and like I said we play diablo 3 and that's about it. Our big hobby is ballroom dancing so I don't forsee too much additional gaming needs. I was thinking the GPU would be a good place to save $

Case - it's not an emotional choice for me. I just picked something that I thought was reasonable and not a full-size. I do want it to look nice for her but I think the not-full-size is more important than any windows or looks.

PSU - another good point. Didn't realize it was so overpowered. thanks!



Ex -

Scientific Computing - she does analysis of galaxies, mostly in Python. Almost all her code is single threaded Python - though I have on occasion helped her write some multi-Processed code to take advantage of multiple cores. Note in Python, there is a 'global interpreter lock' which prevents threading from being truly parallel, so we tend to use multi-processing instead of multi-threading. Overall, if we were doing something hardcore like hawking radiation simulation or something, or maybe high-particle galaxy/large scale galactic evolution modelling, we would certainly go to a GPU, but for most of the stuff she does that would be 1) overkill and 2) a waste of time to implement. It's much simpler to write some python, kick off the code and get a cup of coffee while it finishes for most things. I know when I say 'scientific computing' that makes you think of all the cool GPU stuff but I can say with experience in a similar field to what she does that it's worth it to be able to write a piece of code and not have to optimize the balls off it just to have it run and get some results. Which is why I'm willing to shell out for a little bit of extra single-core performance.


Thanks again guys, this is awesome. In general I think I will wait a few days or a week for the next-gen coffee lake cores, and theres a lot of other feedback here I can incorporate. Also anxiously awaiting Ex's suggestion as well.

All of this screams i5 tbh. It was always the CPU class of choice when you mainly needed single threaded performance and could afford to buy some headroom for other tasks. And with coffee lake that's still 6 cores. The upgrade to an i7 with 6 more threads (which performs like 1/3rd core!) costs $100. Btw. for now there's only two i5's announced. One that's overclockable and the other is slower. So the obvious choice would be i5-8600k.
However you still have to decide about overclocking when settling on a mainboard chipset. I'm gonna assume overclockable mainboards are gonna be more expensive.


Sure. Just check the specs of the towers. All support ATX boards.


Consider going 256GB drive then.


This, again screams i5. If you can confidently say she won't pick up newer games over the years then sure, but then do it right. The regular 1050 is definitely enough for D3. And the performance jump from 1050 to 1050Ti is smaller than from 1050Ti to 1060 3GB, while costing roughly the same: (10% FPS for $35 or 19% FPS for $45 or 0.29% per $ vs 0.39% per $)
http://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-GTX-1050-Ti-vs-Nvidia-GTX-1050/3649vs3650
http://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-GTX-1050-Ti-vs-Nvidia-GTX-1060-3GB/3649vs3646


Ya just spend some time comparing. There's no need to shell out $100 for a good looking but otherwise unremarkable case.


fyi PSU calculator recommends 320W.


With the new information here's a new build suggestion:

Notes:
- Ignore the warning about BIOS update, you'll get the coffee-lake equivalent.
- Changed CPU to i5-7600k
- Overclockable board
- M.2 slot mobo/SSD (forgot that one the first time around. Sorry ex! )
- 256GB SSD

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Oct 6 2017, 1:45 am by NudeRaider.

You should definitely buy all AMD parts because I'm long AMD.

Vrael, it is time my son.

I have heard the words spoken by the faithful and indeed have used their proposed builds as tools for the final solution. During work I read thru the blessed Ananadtech's Coffee Lake preview, and once home did hear the prophet Linus's benchmarks of the same. I have come to the conclusion that we are all of us in the presence of the one Blue God with this release, and his name is Intel.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel - Core i3-8350K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor ($192.58 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: CRYORIG - M9i 48.4 CFM CPU Cooler ($19.99 @ Newegg Marketplace)
Motherboard: MSI - Z370 GAMING PLUS ATX LGA1151 Motherboard ($139.08 @ Amazon)
Memory: Team - Vulcan 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory ($147.53 @ OutletPC)
Storage: Samsung - 850 EVO 250GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($108.45 @ Newegg Marketplace)
Video Card: EVGA - GeForce GTX 1050 Ti 4GB ACX 2.0 Video Card ($149.78 @ Amazon)
Case: Fractal Design - Focus G ATX Mid Tower Case ($48.13 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic - 520W 80+ Bronze Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($56.27 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $861.81
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-10-05 19:22 EDT-0400

Be advised without shitty-living-in-NJ tax this build comes out much closer to 800$, so slightly above target. And before the i3 troubles you, take heart in my words:

-So as part of recommending things responsibly I try to see where we're going to be rather than where we are. I take my responsibility when spending or recommending spending of money I didn't work for very seriously. And you can't get much closer to where we're going to be than a CPU lineup that isn't even fully documented or benchmarked yet. This is part of why I'm always trying to push toward newer chipsets, M.2 technology, and things like that. So lets look at your use case and then look at this i3. We need something that puts single thread performance over multi threaded, so that's Intel. We need something that runs the cores it has faster rather than going for more of them, so i3. And I'm recommending something that needs to be a better buy than the 7700 you were looking at, so Coffee Lake. How do I know this i3 is going to be better for you than the 7700? Look at what we know so far about CL and its i5 and i7 bretheren. Look at the benchmarks we've done so far on Anandtech, LinusTechTips, or whatever your favorite review site is. Then realize that i5 that's dominating for its price point (including being a better buy than the 7700) is clocked at 2.7 versus this i3's 4.0. Clock speed is super important in applications that don't leverage multi threading to its maximum, and although you lose 2 cores and 1MB of cache you gain a heck of a lot in the clocks. Its my educated opinion, guess, whatever, that this is the right move, and I stand behind it with the reputation I've built.

-M.2 is always preferable to not-M.2 so as long as space isn't a concern this is the right move as Nude said. If you do need more storage you can drop in a 1TB WD EZEX at any time.

-The CPU coolers are mere dollars apart, do what suits you.

-RAM prices still suck.

-The case, I grabbed something decent that didn't look too bad. Feel free to change to your liking.

-I wanted to recommend you a 1060 6GB. I really did. Its a great card for the money and I have several friends enjoying theirs and singing its praises. But it just isn't in the budget here. Still, the use case is for much lighter gaming than one might need the 1066 as I call it, so I suppose its little brother will have to do.


Now go forth my child, and build in his name.

Post has been edited 5 time(s), last time on Oct 6 2017, 12:00 am by Excalibur.

The clock speed boost for the i3's is interesting, making it really good for anything single threaded... And 4 cores is a lot already and will be enough for many years to come for many use cases, sweetening the deal.
But many cases is not all cases, making this a difficult choice. The trend is there, to use more cores wherever possible and will continue as coding techniques improve. And anything that can benefit from many cores will suffer. Thus it's hard to tell the importance of single- vs multi-threaded in say 3-5 years.
Then again clock speed is easily improved even by trivial overclocks and my guess would be that the i5's can be clocked similarly to i3's, even temp wise, when only one core is (significantly) loaded. (reminder: the whole point of the overclock would be to remedy the lower clock which hinders single-threaded performance).

So with this in mind I kind of have to backpedal on my initial assessment that overclocking is out of the picture. I'd keep this option to have the best of both worlds: 50% more cores and similar single-threaded performance, for a reasonable premium.


Apparently the Corsair gold PSU I picked now offers $20 rebate, making it a really attractive choice.


Finally if you decide against overclocking you're gonna have to wait until January. Then a couple of new CPUs models will be released and the H and B series mainboards. Especially the latter will be a lot cheaper than the Z series you can get now--probably around 60-80 dollars.

@Nude
The i3 I chose has OC capability and an unlocked i5 is 80$ more roughly, and probably requires more expensive cooling to OC as a 6 core part. We can probably get better temps on either of the two value coolers presented than Intel stock, and thus some light OCing may be possible for the i3. If so, then the value proposition still outshines the i5 as long as multi threading does not rank higher in this use case than it does right now. As much as I'd like to build this with more cores and a 1060 6GB, the budget just does not allow.

I agree a B series mobo would be far preferable but we're a ways away from that as you said.

What if I loosened the budget requirement up to $1000 US? Part of coming to you guys before buying on my own was to evaluate price points. If you think there's some significant performance increases to be had I think we are willing to go a little higher.

The only worthwhile change on a higher budget at this point would be a GTX 1060 6GB imo.

You should be able to draw your own conclusions based on the discussions. We've made sure to elaborate on the reasons for specific parts.

There's 2 main areas of decision to make: CPU and GPU.
For the GPU anything starting from a regular GTX 1050 will fully cover your current needs. Anything you put into a higher model will increase the time the GPU will be able to keep up with new titles. While the 1060 6GB seems to be the strongest card that can possibly make sense for the aforementioned future proofing, I feel like its little brother with 3GB will serve you for just (or almost) as long because on medium settings the shadow maps and textures are significantly smaller and will probably stay small enough for 3 GB for a really long time. Ex recommends the 1050Ti because right now you can play mostly anything without turning down the settings too much, so the games will still look pretty fantastic, and it's the cheapest card on the market that can do that right now.

For the CPU it isn't as easy as putting in more money for it to stay relevant longer, because of the uncertainty of single-threaded vs. multi-threaded and possibly the factor of overclocks.
I think the rundown is this:
- if you believe anything you will do now and in the future requires just one or a few cores and overclocking is probably not desired, then an i3 will be the ideal choice.
- if you think in 3-5+ years the software landscape will have shifted a good bit towards multi-threading, to the point where software important to you will support more than 4 cores and trivial(!) overclocking will/can be used to speed up single-threaded performance then an i5 offers good value for the price. Even an i7 wouldn't be out of the question, if you're willing to pay extra to buy you another 2 years or so and some extra power for heavy parallel tasks.

The truth will probably be somewhere inbetween.

When you've decided on the CPU line, and you probably won't want to overclock the CPU then there's the option to wait until January to save about $100 and buy non-overclockable hardware.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Oct 7 2017, 11:05 pm by NudeRaider.

@Nude/Vrael
Just FYI in case you didn't know, the 3GB version is not just less memory, see here:

I knew, but considered the other details too minor to mention / base a decision on.