Alright time to get this out and end it once and for all. It's an issue for some people here (moose locked the old topic due to spam and whatever). [quote=Centreri]Hostile, Yoshi. I'm not imagining a website war - I'm trying to simply put one or the other on top. It's going to happen eventually. Try finding two map making sites for any single game of equal popularity. WCIII (had) wc3campaigns as the main one. I really don't know why you guys can't just merge SEN and Maplantis. One's going to be on top in the end. A guy asks on battle net, where can I go to get help with X, and he'll get a response akin to 'Go to Y. There's also Z, but I like Y better'. [/quote]Maplantis and SEN both use different site engines. Maplantis is more developed with a maps db, wiki and such, plus constant updates from my latova software. IP wouldn't want to merge SEN with Maplantis for the fact he already made an engine and doesn't want to toss it away. I don't want to toss it away because I feel like I'm reinventing stuff I've already done. Plus there's a few community things I would not have in maplantis, like mineral systems and too many off topic forums because the people there agree we don't need them. Unless you're willing to get rid of those two things here then the communities are way too different to be merged. [quote=Centreri]It just doesn't make sense, how you guys are splitting up the map making community. In order to read all the requests, someone has to visit two very different websites. In order to communicate, two different websites. And in the end, one will be behind the other anyway. All SEN has right now is a reputation and dedicated members. The decline of SCI is not the only reason SEN is so empty right now. [/quote]We didn't split up the community. We just wanted to do things our way instead of following the way things were already done. Obviously are plans would not fit into SEN so we made a new, different community. If SEN is declining because of Maplantis, I fail to see how that is my fault. I made both sites, I gave up a lot of my time for you guys without asking for anything in return. [quote=Centreri]I'm not putting down your accomplishments. Maplantis is awesome (hell, only reason I'm not there usually is the monotone color scheme (well.. too monotone) and I like Moose), with a wiki, a fantastic downloads database, and extremely well functioning forums. I'm not denying that.[/quote]I'm not telling you to go there, I'm telling you these rivalries are retarded. I don't really care if you go there or not. [quote=Centreri]Don't be an idealist and say there won't be any competition if I didn't exist (or anything to that effect). Two websites, on the same game, covering the same aspects, with same planned features. Pretty obvious. Again, just try merging the two sites, dammit. With a SEN theme and a maplantisesque theme. Implement wiki/DLDB/whatever here or SEN's distinguishing features (err.. clan system, I guess) to Latova. It's detrimental to the mapping community when you split them up.[/quote]Latova has all these abilities pretty easily. IP would likely not merge the sites and I wouldn't either. For the reasons at the top. I like the way maplantis is and so do a lot of people so I don't intend on shutting down just because you like the presence of two websites. It's like saying having multiple gaming companies is splitting up the gaming community. It's just silly. [quote=Falkoner]The main problem is both site's views on OS Map, people who are pro-OS map tend to go mostly to Maplantis, but they often go to both, and anti-OS Map people like SeN, and tend to avoid Maplantis.. And if we merged, it'd have to go one way or the other.[/quote]The whole OSmap issue was half a year ago. It's done now, we no longer care about it, people upload their maps and flag it as "do not edit". It works great. Everyone wins. I don't know why we're still dwelling upon that issue.

Alright time to get this out and end it once and for all. It's an issue for some people here (moose locked the old topic due to spam and whatever).

Quote from Centreri

Hostile, Yoshi. I'm not imagining a website war - I'm trying to simply put one or the other on top. It's going to happen eventually. Try finding two map making sites for any single game of equal popularity. WCIII (had) wc3campaigns as the main one.

I really don't know why you guys can't just merge SEN and Maplantis. One's going to be on top in the end. A guy asks on battle net, where can I go to get help with X, and he'll get a response akin to 'Go to Y. There's also Z, but I like Y better'.

Maplantis and SEN both use different site engines. Maplantis is more developed with a maps db, wiki and such, plus constant updates from my latova software. IP wouldn't want to merge SEN with Maplantis for the fact he already made an engine and doesn't want to toss it away. I don't want to toss it away because I feel like I'm reinventing stuff I've already done. Plus there's a few community things I would not have in maplantis, like mineral systems and too many off topic forums because the people there agree we don't need them. Unless you're willing to get rid of those two things here then the communities are way too different to be merged.

Quote from Centreri

It just doesn't make sense, how you guys are splitting up the map making community. In order to read all the requests, someone has to visit two very different websites. In order to communicate, two different websites. And in the end, one will be behind the other anyway. All SEN has right now is a reputation and dedicated members. The decline of SCI is not the only reason SEN is so empty right now.

We didn't split up the community. We just wanted to do things our way instead of following the way things were already done. Obviously are plans would not fit into SEN so we made a new, different community. If SEN is declining because of Maplantis, I fail to see how that is my fault. I made both sites, I gave up a lot of my time for you guys without asking for anything in return.

Quote from Centreri

I'm not putting down your accomplishments. Maplantis is awesome (hell, only reason I'm not there usually is the monotone color scheme (well.. too monotone) and I like Moose), with a wiki, a fantastic downloads database, and extremely well functioning forums. I'm not denying that.

I'm not telling you to go there, I'm telling you these rivalries are retarded. I don't really care if you go there or not.

Quote from Centreri

Don't be an idealist and say there won't be any competition if I didn't exist (or anything to that effect). Two websites, on the same game, covering the same aspects, with same planned features. Pretty obvious. Again, just try merging the two sites, dammit. With a SEN theme and a maplantisesque theme. Implement wiki/DLDB/whatever here or SEN's distinguishing features (err.. clan system, I guess) to Latova. It's detrimental to the mapping community when you split them up.

Latova has all these abilities pretty easily. IP would likely not merge the sites and I wouldn't either. For the reasons at the top. I like the way maplantis is and so do a lot of people so I don't intend on shutting down just because you like the presence of two websites. It's like saying having multiple gaming companies is splitting up the gaming community. It's just silly.

Quote from Falkoner

The main problem is both site's views on OS Map, people who are pro-OS map tend to go mostly to Maplantis, but they often go to both, and anti-OS Map people like SeN, and tend to avoid Maplantis.. And if we merged, it'd have to go one way or the other.

The whole OSmap issue was half a year ago. It's done now, we no longer care about it, people upload their maps and flag it as "do not edit". It works great. Everyone wins. I don't know why we're still dwelling upon that issue.

[quote=Yoshi da Sniper]Alright time to get this out and end it once and for all. It's an issue for some people here (moose locked the old topic due to spam and whatever).[/quote] I locked it because it shouldn't have been remotely related to Maplantis at all. I have since unlocked said thread. Maybe you should just PM Centreri instead of assuming he represents all of us? Most of your beef seems to be with him, not "us". [quote]The whole OSmap issue was half a year ago. It's done now, we no longer care about it, people upload their maps and flag it as "do not edit". It works great. Everyone wins. I don't know why we're still dwelling upon that issue.[/quote] Someone else uploads my map. I do not notice. It is flagged as editable. Do I really win? (No way I would've caught that if it got pushed off the "most recent submissions" column.)

Quote from Yoshi da Sniper

Alright time to get this out and end it once and for all. It's an issue for some people here (moose locked the old topic due to spam and whatever).

I locked it because it shouldn't have been remotely related to Maplantis at all. I have since unlocked said thread.

Maybe you should just PM Centreri instead of assuming he represents all of us? Most of your beef seems to be with him, not "us".

Quote

The whole OSmap issue was half a year ago. It's done now, we no longer care about it, people upload their maps and flag it as "do not edit". It works great. Everyone wins. I don't know why we're still dwelling upon that issue.

Someone else uploads my map. I do not notice. It is flagged as editable. Do I really win? (No way I would've caught that if it got pushed off the "most recent submissions" column.)

[quote=Mini Moose 2707]Maybe you should just PM Centreri instead of assuming he represents all of us? Most of your beef seems to be with him, not "us".[/quote]I know theres more than one person who thinks like this. This is their chance to tell me what they want to. [quote=Mini Moose 2707]Someone else uploads my map. I do not notice. It is flagged as editable. Do I really win? (No way I would've caught that if it got pushed off the "most recent submissions" column.)[/quote] You told me, I fixed it. Theres nothing stopping someone from uploading a stolen version either, but we'll remove them. Thats the point.

Quote from Mini Moose 2707

Maybe you should just PM Centreri instead of assuming he represents all of us? Most of your beef seems to be with him, not "us".

I know theres more than one person who thinks like this. This is their chance to tell me what they want to.

Quote from Mini Moose 2707

Someone else uploads my map. I do not notice. It is flagged as editable. Do I really win? (No way I would've caught that if it got pushed off the "most recent submissions" column.)

You told me, I fixed it. Theres nothing stopping someone from uploading a stolen version either, but we'll remove them. Thats the point.

Yeah, I did catch it before any harm was done. It's still a big "what if?" scenario. Anyway, I wish we still had starcraftsoapopera.com hooked up. It would come in handy. :P

Yeah, I did catch it before any harm was done. It's still a big "what if?" scenario.

Anyway, I wish we still had starcraftsoapopera.com hooked up. It would come in handy.

[quote=Mini Moose 2707]Yeah, I did catch it before any harm was done. It's still a big "what if?" scenario. Anyway, I wish we still had starcraftsoapopera.com hooked up. It would come in handy. :P[/quote] When its in public domain, you can't control it. I do my best to make sure things like these don't happen, but whats the solution? Not having a maps DB? I'm not trying to create drama, I'm trying to answer an issue obviously people take too seriously.

Quote from Mini Moose 2707

Yeah, I did catch it before any harm was done. It's still a big "what if?" scenario.

Anyway, I wish we still had starcraftsoapopera.com hooked up. It would come in handy.

When its in public domain, you can't control it. I do my best to make sure things like these don't happen, but whats the solution? Not having a maps DB?

I'm not trying to create drama, I'm trying to answer an issue obviously people take too seriously.

[quote=Mini Moose 2707]Yeah, I did catch it before any harm was done. It's still a big "what if?" scenario. Anyway, I wish we still had starcraftsoapopera.com hooked up. It would come in handy. :P[/quote] By this logic we should remove knives from stores. What if someone buys it for stabbing another person instead of for cooking purposes? The fact that the webmasters are willing to respond to claims and deal with improper content is enough - should be enough for everyone.

Quote from Mini Moose 2707

Yeah, I did catch it before any harm was done. It's still a big "what if?" scenario.

Anyway, I wish we still had starcraftsoapopera.com hooked up. It would come in handy.

By this logic we should remove knives from stores. What if someone buys it for stabbing another person instead of for cooking purposes? The fact that the webmasters are willing to respond to claims and deal with improper content is enough - should be enough for everyone.

The solution is having a DB but not allowing other people to release maps [edit]they didn't make[/edit] into public domain? :P

The solution is having a DB but not allowing other people to release maps [edit]they didn't make[/edit] into public domain?

[quote=Mini Moose 2707]The solution is having a DB but not allowing other people to release maps [edit]they didn't make[/edit] into public domain? :P[/quote] We can't speak for mappers. You can't exactly tell people not to edit maps that came from battle.net, where people edit them anyways.

Quote from Mini Moose 2707

The solution is having a DB but not allowing other people to release maps [edit]they didn't make[/edit] into public domain?

We can't speak for mappers. You can't exactly tell people not to edit maps that came from battle.net, where people edit them anyways.

Difficult things and uphill battles were never worth it.

Difficult things and uphill battles were never worth it.

people are too attached to the sites and not at all to the game, that's why SC is dying, that's why the community is split.

people are too attached to the sites and not at all to the game, that's why SC is dying, that's why the community is split.

I was toying with banning everyone who didn't fill in a valid SC account in 30 days. The roadblock is that I can't validate them besides typing in every name on battle.net manually, but we digress. :P

I was toying with banning everyone who didn't fill in a valid SC account in 30 days. The roadblock is that I can't validate them besides typing in every name on battle.net manually, but we digress.

That's where macros come in :P But seriously, they are two different sites, and people go to one or the other, depending on their preference. Although I like Maplantis because of its focus on Starcraft, as much as I love SeN with its games and systems, a lot of people come here just for those, not to map.

That's where macros come in

But seriously, they are two different sites, and people go to one or the other, depending on their preference. Although I like Maplantis because of its focus on Starcraft, as much as I love SeN with its games and systems, a lot of people come here just for those, not to map.

Let's all learn korean and join korean starcraft communities. After all they produce the best maps and they were the original.

Let's all learn korean and join korean starcraft communities. After all they produce the best maps and they were the original.

I'd have to disagree with them producing the best maps.. And we did figure out a lot of the glitches and SCM Draft and StarForge were made by English speakers..

I'd have to disagree with them producing the best maps.. And we did figure out a lot of the glitches and SCM Draft and StarForge were made by English speakers..

... I'll just state it bluntly: do not merge maplantis and SEN.

... I'll just state it bluntly: do not merge maplantis and SEN.

[color=#b5b5ff]They are, indeed, two sites that ostensibly serve the same purpose. The fact remains that Maplantis was founded by a group of people (its founding memberbase) that were militantly opposed to SeN. However far from that the site has drifted, it still lives under the fact that its founding purpose was to crystallize a rift in the mapping community caused by LegacyWeapon and OSMAP. Though this is hardly it's purpose today, it still polarizes people with long memories, and I don't think anyone at all here has managed to keep a level head throughout. My ever-waning support for SeN stems from, at heart, a profound sense of conservatism. I need to see the purpose and value of a change to embrace it, so at first I wanted to stick with SeN through thick and thin. Last month, however, I made one of my periodic visits to Maplantis and had an epiphany: 'Holy shit, stuff is actually going on here.' The community had moved on, propelled by SeN's two-month absence. The biggest and sanest block of moderates, clan [MM], made Maplantis their home, and with them moved the center of the community. Maplantis has active and involved map nights and mod nights, and a burgeoning core of advanced members. These days, I must face it, SeN is shit. The v5 husk that was relaunched is laughably incomplete, and the memberbase had already been so depleted that there remained no one to lead SeN. It lacks the strong-willed bureaucratic system I admired that let it function with its hundreds upon hundreds of active members. It lacks anything to aspire to at all, and thus new members are just as likely to find their way over to Maplantis and begin their career in mapping or modding there. It has no cohesive leadership, and in that I do not point any fingers, but merely point that more than any poor decisions, the lack of agreement between SeN's current staff is crippling. SeN is a ruin of a once-great society, grazed upon by scavengers and inhabited by those who make shelter behind shattered walls. Can it change? Certainly, but right now the soul of the community is at Maplantis, and it's there to stay for at least some weeks, or maybe many more, to come.[/color]

I like SEN better than maplantis because Maplantis people seem to be stuck up with a dick in their ass thinking they are superior but yet does not even produce much maps. Same goes for SEN, but most of these people are retarded retards who also barely produces maps, but Maplantis was based off a community of elites from clan (U)Unknown while SEN was a map making community and mod by default.

I like SEN better than maplantis because Maplantis people seem to be stuck up with a dick in their ass thinking they are superior but yet does not even produce much maps. Same goes for SEN, but most of these people are retarded retards who also barely produces maps, but Maplantis was based off a community of elites from clan (U)Unknown while SEN was a map making community and mod by default.

Maplantis also has the majority of the modding community, wish I've noticed is pretty dead here at SEN. The main reason I like SC is the modding capabilties, and its not developing at all at SEN, and even in older versions of SEN.

Maplantis also has the majority of the modding community, wish I've noticed is pretty dead here at SEN. The main reason I like SC is the modding capabilties, and its not developing at all at SEN, and even in older versions of SEN.

[quote=DT_Battlekruser][color=#b5b5ff]SeN's current staff[/color][/quote] Merrell, IP, and I have names. :/ EDIT: Yenku does too. :P

Quote from DT_Battlekruser

SeN's current staff

Merrell, IP, and I have names. :/
EDIT: Yenku does too.

[color=#b5b5ff]I didn't wish to point fingers, because I do not think it is anyone's fault in particular.[/color]