Staredit Network > Forums > SC1 UMS Mapmaking Assistance > Topic: Temple Siege Remastered
Temple Siege Remastered
May 13 2017, 8:02 pm
By: Broflamingo  

Apr 6 2018, 2:55 am ClansAreForGays Post #21

Is this actually being done? I think I have an open bug-fixed one before all the new heroes were added by IAGG and that other guy. pm me if u want it.

May 4 2018, 6:06 pm TheGhostmaster Post #22

/wall of text
I'd love to see another, better version of Temple Siege, and here my opinions/advices:

I play Magician neigh religiously in this game, and I think my opinion has some validity in this thread; now I sadly have never played older versions of this game, so I never really played this 'Phantom' hero you people speak of.
Magician is one of the weakest, but at the same time, one of the strongest heroes in this game, Magician statistically is a very underwhelming hero, it's stats are not impressive at all, but his set of spells can make it out for it's weakness. All his spells can be used fairly creatively, how good a Magician player is depends on how 'smart' and 'clever' said player is to overcome the challenge:

To begin with, it's a Ghost, he has fairly good range, good microability and cloaking ability, which can be a lifesaver or a good ganking tool during night.

Magician's L1 is fairly situational, but it works very well with proper teamwork. It's not the first time I manage to L1 someone into a friendly LM or Volt L1 and secure a kill, L1 an enemy into an Assasin L2, or L1 someone next to my friendly Mutant to L2 him down. Also Magician L1's comes handy when denying an enemy warpgate stall. You see that enemy Mutant coming from bottom to stall your ally middle capture? You get on that Mutant's path before it reaches middle, L1 him, when he comes near the beacon, L1 triggers and you both switch places, buying some precious seconds. Now the mutant has the choice to let the base go or risk going in again and get cannoned down by the recently captured base. If the latter happens, another Magician L1 to pull that Mutant again into cannons is always a death sentence, no matter the circunstances.
Besides that, you can always use Magician L1 cleverly to escape from shit pickle situations, juking the enemy walking the opposite direction, away from your temple, L1 triggers and you both switch places, landing the Magician near safety's reach.
Also something I love from Magician L1, is that it doesnt 'interfere' with his other spells. When a Magician has to deal with a small sized hero, such as Spec Ops or Mutant, what he can do is L1 the enemy, trigger the L1, then right before you both get teleported, cast Magician L2. The enemy hero will be teleported directly into Magician L2, dealing massive amounts of damage, if that doesnt kill him/her, the Magician will be now posicitionated on the way to safety, where the Magician can L2 yet again the enemy hero trying to escape to safety. A second L2 on a small hero is almost always a death sentence.
Likewise, when dealing with big sized heroes, like Alchemist, Mech, General or Volt, the same method can be applied, L1 the enemy hero, trigger it, and right before switching places, cast Magician's L4; it's guaranteed you will land 2 or even 3 devastating arbiter shots

Magician's L2, against small heroes is very dangerours played it right, a 6 attack upgrades magician full L2 can down 200-500 HP in a single cast. Also it's good when dealing mass small spawn, if a little not mana efficient.

Some people thinks the best Spell of Magician is his l4, but I differ, his best spell is his L3, mind control.
There are some situations Magicians L2 nor his L4 can handle, Summoner's swarmed zerglings, an enemy Medic or DM out there, an annoying Assaulter and his pesky Dropship, etc. L3 has more potential than people realize:
-If the Magician had a good start, by the time Zerglings spawns, he will have L3 and both Zergling speed upgrades, making him able to destroy open assims and farm multiple lanes, basically a lesser Summoner, if anybody did this before you will see how your EXP skyrockets in a matter of minutes.
Another use is to cloak and consume Zerg L3'd spawn, making you unseen for the rest of the night. This strategy goes well to pull a L1L2L2 move, or a L1L4 in a sneaky manner during night.
When Marines spawn, given you have researched Stim by then, you will have a mobile hitsquad of very damaging, spendable, squishy marines. Good to fuck around with them and being annoying.
Zealots usually dont have much use for Magician, or at least I did not give them much use besides very particular situations. And finally Hydras spawn is the ultimate candidates for L3, bulky, damaging, ranged, and can be consumed for permanent cloak with no risk of running into severe mana shortage, unlike in Zergling stages of the game.
People also seem to forget G3F has spawning buildings, these spawns can be also mind controled, the options are limitless.
Is a Summy giving you trouble with his pesky lings? Make a Firebat building, L3 Firebats and start running around roasting his Zerglings
Is a Summy bringing his scary big ultralisks and your L4 are not enough? Just L3 reavers with enough scarab upgrades and blow his dumb ultralisks appart.
Is an Assaulter bullying you? Mind control 6 goliaths and shot down his Dropship, with him inside. Have fun trying to burn Goliath steel.
Is a Medic, or worse, a Dark Mage making your life miserable? Just L3 vultures or Goliaths and watch your minions murdering them. Specially for DMs, have fun trying to attack 6 speed boosted highly upgraded vultures.
Is a General or Mech being a nuissance? Get a Hydralisk hitsquad and attack at the right time, specially during night, when you can burrow them and set an ambush.
Is a Spec Ops or a Mutant being a slippery prey? Weaken them and chase-micro with vultures, they cannot escape from Terran hovering bikes.
Etc, you get the idea now.

Lastly, Magician's L4 is more than a huge finishing move, but also good tool. Warrior generally can tank your L2s, L3L2 the magician and quickly kill the frail hero, if you bring your own l3 spawn, he can simply kill it, L3 it or plain ignore it with his huge HP pool or his L4. The solution? Stasis the motherf*cker and laugh at him while you wreck his base with 6 goliaths. Or if you feel specially devilish and daredevil, L1 the warrior while freezed into your base, when the stasis wears out, he will be quickly warmed up by your base's cannons hot plasma, several L1s to not let him escape. This strategy also applies to Archer, if a tad more difficult to pull.
Also, during night, you can always sneak in the enemy base, cast your L4 and recall 6 reavers and/or 6 goliaths into the enemy base, a surprisingly fun and effective way to snipe the enemy temple.

With all of these in consideration, I think Magician does not deserve a complete overhaul and it should mainly stay as it is, although some changes could be made:
Magician's L2, while very damaging at first against low HP small heroes, but scales poorly compared to HP boosting every level gives, a power Spec Ops or a power Mutant can safely ignore a few L2s and murder the magician. His L2 needs better scaling. I'd say reduce L2's Ghosts base damage to 0, but it's damage upgrade ratio to +5 damage per upgrade (Medic's damage upgrade ratio), meaning in later stages of the game L2 will still posse a threat, while not as deadly in the early game. Fair trade in my eyes.
Maximum 6 L3'd spawns is fair, but in later games that's not enough, you'd have to create multiple buildings to have a variety of L3'd spawn army. Nobody (or at least I) dont like spawn spam. Raise the maximum of L3'd spawn from 6 to 9.
Magician's L1 and L4 are okay as they are. However L1 can sometimes glitch out, for example, at times I want to l1 an enemy hero, and as soon I cast it, it INMEDIADLY triggers without nobody leaving the spell zone, this is very annoying. Also L1 doesnt properly work on a Summoner, Magician only gets 'pulled' into the Summoner, they dont exchange places. Given the Summoner is always surrounded by his minions under swarm, getting teleported next to a Summy is a death sentence as Magician.
Sometimes if you L1 an Assasin, and if said Assasin l1's away, your Magician L1 will trigger, you will end next to the enemy temple and the Assasin next to yours, which it's always a favourable situation for the Assasin since he ca simply L1 away or just use his L3 while you get melted by the enemy cannons.
Other lesser occurences are, for example, if you Stasis an enemy in his heal zone, the stasis will glitch out and the enemy will become vulnerable even during Stasis. Hillarious at first, but not fair at all. Something similar happens when a Spec Ops decides to use his L3 when freezed, he will become vulnerable while frozen.
Lastly, and some minor bug, is if you recently use your L4 and then died, the game wont inmediadly end because you will have a Mist on the top left corner of the map, being your L4 cooldown timer. Game ends when L4 cooldown period finishes, the trigger Mist will eventually die out.

I also happen to favour General a little. General may be only of the few heroes that can stop a Mech or Volt on his tracks, contesting middle while General's SCV caps the base, he's very different and unique in this game.
I think General could use some armor and HP bonus, yes he's tanky (pun intended) but not tanky enough to take the heat and drive away to safety, at least not Warrior levels of tankiness.
His SCV is also quite useful, I personally love it. You can always do something handy with it. Build mine fields to kill spawn when you leave. Build mines in chokes to alert you from incoming gankers during night, and give a chance to react and escape. Build Turrets to alert you and your allies from an Assasin lurking about, wrecking your base, or to keep off that pesky Assault trying to cap your top base. A personal favorite of mine is the 'Mana deposits' when you build half done depos and then cancel them for free mana when needed. Also repair is nice.
A change that I'd like to see, and that I believe it was suggested, is General's SCV being able to build Refineries, these Refineries would be more efficient at giving mineral income (25 minerals instead of 15 minerals) and be way more armored (20 base armor) with a decent HP pool. Some possible drawbacks would be a fairly huge mana cost, 100 gas for a refinery, maybe 150; and also a long building time, leaving your SCV busy for a prolonged period of time and even vulnerable to enemy harassers. Also Refineries would feed A LOT, a guaranteed level up per raze.
I like the idea of General being able to build bunkers with it's SCV, full of Ghosts, fairly armored, fairly damaging with a 100 gas cost.
My last idea, if not a little crazy, is for the General build a Barrack and then able to 'recruit Soldiers' from it, Marines, Firebats, Ghosts and Medics, to have a little army by his side at all times, like an actual General in the battlefield.

Although people dislikes Mist, I find him really fun to play (played correctly) but I realize he's very unfun to fight against.
My only suggestion is to give cannons a +1 damage per protoss ground attack upgrades. This cannot be done in regular SCMdraft editor, but it can be done with EUD triggerediting. Also it's storm being able to be upgraded with protoss ground attack upgrades. Same deal, EUD triggering.
Although if Mist gets removed, I'd be a little sad, but I'd understand why it was removed, it's gameplay is very hard and unfun to fight and most of the times breaks the game into a very tedious endurance test.

On other opinions, make spawning buildings more expensive, it's very easy to spam spawn buildings and quickly flood the enemy heroes with a horde of strong spawn, it's a really not fun strategy to pull nor fight.
Make spawning buildings spawn different amounts of units per spawn:

1 Reaver
2 Goliaths
3 Vultures
3 Dragoons
4 Hydras
4 Firebats
Also I'd like to see a Zealot spawning building, 3 Zealots per spawn wave, useful to L3 as Magician and handle a pesky enemy Archer or big enemy hero.

Lastly, I don't think IAGG name should be deleted from the game, but I do agree his 'IAGG'S BAN HAMMER' Ghost is a little... unproffesional. Tone down a little bit.
There is no reason for mirror matches to not exist, I agree 3 hero stack can be dumb, but also fun at the same time. The selection screen, in my opinion, is fine as it is. Make an actual good tutorial.

/wall of text


May 4 2018, 7:43 pm NudeRaider Post #23

We can't explain the universe, just describe it; and we don't know whether our theories are true, we just know they're not wrong. >Harald Lesch

Nice ideas. No go ahead and make / finish the map.

May 4 2018, 11:32 pm Insignius Post #24

Someone has to make new version. Period.
BTW, I'd like to make a video about TS's chronological history of version s, heroes, tourneys and more, I'd love you to help me out with this guy's


May 5 2018, 2:53 pm Dem0n Post #25

ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

Most of that stuff is documented here. Just read through the TS map showcase threads. I think we may even have some tournament threads as well.

Memes gather, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the memer on the walls. I am the shield that guards the realms of memes. I pledge my life and honor to the Meme's Watch, for this meme and all the memes to come.

May 14 2018, 12:39 am Insignius Post #26

This is my newest TS video: make sure to like and suscribe!


Aug 26 2018, 5:47 pm goobie Post #27

Seems there's a decent amount of demand for this. With permission from UU I'd be happy to make a remaster. I have some ideas about refactoring the triggers into LIT or ProTRG so that we could essentially design spells separate from heroes and cobble the heroes together very quickly to try out lots of different combinations.

Also, there's been some talk on US West about a new temple siege version. I'll see if we can get some heated balance discussions going on UU's TS discord.

There's got to be something more to life than being really, really, ridiculously good looking...

Sep 23 2018, 7:48 pm goobie Post #28

Here's a sample of spell abstraction I've put together using LIT. I can quickly generate triggers to do spell effects centered on any unit I like.

There's got to be something more to life than being really, really, ridiculously good looking...

Sep 24 2018, 10:55 pm Broflamingo Post #29

Quote from goobie
Here's a sample of spell abstraction I've put together using LIT. I can quickly generate triggers to do spell effects centered on any unit I like.

Goobie, PM about remaking temple siege remastered. I am offering 500$ for anyone helping me to produce the map. I am serious about this.


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