Staredit Network > Forums > Null > Topic: Manipulation
Manipulation
May 12 2014, 6:29 pm
By: Fire_Kame  
Polls
Is this still manipulation?
Is this still manipulation?
Answer Votes Percentage % Voters
Yes 4
 
45%
No 5
 
56%
Please login to vote.
Poll has 9 votes. You can vote for at most 1 option(s).

May 12 2014, 6:29 pm Fire_Kame Post #1

wth is starcraft

A hypothetical question for you, SEN:

If someone is manipulating you, and you let it happen knowing this, and they think you don't know they're doing it, are they still manipulating you?




May 12 2014, 6:47 pm Sand Wraith Post #2

she/her

I don't think so. I feel that the definition of manipulation requires some element of deception.
Even so, if the manipulator has a backup plan that works even if you are aware of it, then ultimately you might still end up being manipulated.

I don't know. I voted no though.




May 12 2014, 8:04 pm Roy Post #3

An artist's depiction of an Extended Unit Death

Your hair stylist is manipulating your hair, and you are aware and allow it to happen, but that doesn't change the fact that your hair is manipulated.

I assume of course you're referring to psychological manipulation:
Quote from Wikipedia
Psychological manipulation is a type of social influence that aims to change the perception or behavior of others through underhanded, deceptive, or even abusive tactics.[1] By advancing the interests of the manipulator, often at another's expense, such methods could be considered exploitative, abusive, devious, and deceptive. Social influence is not necessarily negative. For example, doctors can try to persuade patients to change unhealthy habits. Social influence is generally perceived to be harmless when it respects the right of the influenced to accept or reject and is not unduly coercive. Depending on the context and motivations, social influence may constitute underhanded manipulation.
Your question essentially boils down to either: if you discover that someone is using underhanded techniques to influence your perception or behavior:

1) Is it still underhanded? (Yes)
2) Are you still influenced by it? (Yes/No)

The end goal of the manipulator is to get you to think a certain way, so if you think that certain way, they've accomplished their goal, whether it be from their manipulation or if it would have been your original intention. If your original intention has not been influenced by the manipulation, then you technically have not been manipulated. However, if you were influenced by the manipulator and later discovered it and did nothing, you're still a victim of manipulation.

In summary: having your thoughts or actions influenced through these manipulative tactics means you are being manipulated; knowledge of manipulation doesn't mean you aren't being manipulated. There's no "Other" option on your poll, so I must abstain due to the ambiguity of the question.

Though your hypothetical scenario is intriguing in that while you are (presumably) being manipulated, you are also manipulating the other person by making them believe you're oblivious to the situation.




May 12 2014, 8:42 pm LoveLess Post #4

Let me show you how to hump without making love.

Quote from Roy
Your hair stylist is manipulating your hair, and you are aware and allow it to happen, but that doesn't change the fact that your hair is manipulated.

Yes, because from their perception of things, they are still manipulating you. Honestly it's a matter of semantics, in the formal sense, and it's up to the individual.



None.

May 12 2014, 10:14 pm NudeRaider Post #5

We can't explain the universe, just describe it; and we don't know whether our theories are true, we just know they're not wrong. >Harald Lesch

Quote from Fire_Kame
A hypothetical question for you, SEN:

If someone is manipulating you, and you let it happen knowing this, and they think you don't know they're doing it, are they still manipulating you?
He definitely is trying to manipulate you.
But unless he is actually swaying you towards his position / goal he's not successfully manipulating you.
It doesn't matter if you discover or not having been or being manipulated.

Commonly manipulation attempts are thwarted by the "victim" getting knowledge of it, but in other cases (e.g. doctor's recommendation, sexual coersion, etc.) they might accept being manipulated and follow through regardless. It's still manipulation then.




May 13 2014, 12:07 am Moose Post #6

We live in a society.

It can still be manipulation because you're manipulating the manipulator into thinking you're being manipulated, unless he knows you're manipulating him by letting him think his manipulations are manipulating you. However, the manipulator may still be manipulating if the manipulator knows that you're trying to manipulate the manipulator by pretending that the manipulator's manipulations are manipulating successfully. But you may still be trying to manipulate the manipulator if you are aware of these manipulations. So on and so forth, and this is why you should never play Diplomacy or Risk.




May 13 2014, 12:36 am jjf28 Post #7

Cartography Artisan

Never play Risk? kill the :moose: ! <3



TheNitesWhoSay - Clan Aura - github

Reached the top of StarCraft theory crafting 2:12 AM CST, August 2nd, 2014.

May 13 2014, 12:45 am Roy Post #8

An artist's depiction of an Extended Unit Death

Quote from Mini Moose 2707
It can still be manipulation because you're manipulating the manipulator into thinking you're being manipulated, unless he knows you're manipulating him by letting him think his manipulations are manipulating you. However, the manipulator may still be manipulating if the manipulator knows that you're trying to manipulate the manipulator by pretending that the manipulator's manipulations are manipulating successfully. But you may still be trying to manipulate the manipulator if you are aware of these manipulations. So on and so forth, and this is why you should never play Diplomacy or Risk.





May 13 2014, 2:24 pm Sacrieur Post #9

Still Napping

Where is the pancake option? :-(



None.

May 13 2014, 9:03 pm Sand Wraith Post #10

she/her

Quote from LoveLess
Quote from Roy
Your hair stylist is manipulating your hair, and you are aware and allow it to happen, but that doesn't change the fact that your hair is manipulated.

Yes, because from their perception of things, they are still manipulating you. Honestly it's a matter of semantics, in the formal sense, and it's up to the individual.

What if the manipulator learns that the target knew about their manipulation all along? Would they see it as manipulation still?




May 13 2014, 9:14 pm Wing Zero Post #11

Magic box god; Suck it Corbo

As long as you were trying to get someone to do something without actually saying it, I would consider that manipulation. Even if the other person were to realise what you were doing it doesn't change the fact that you are.




May 15 2014, 5:54 pm Sacrieur Post #12

Still Napping





None.

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