EUDGen2
Feb 10 2013, 5:22 am
By: Roy
Pages: < 1 2 3 45 >
 

Apr 27 2013, 10:25 pm Thanase Post #21



Still get dropped, just me. :/

I set it to sending and receiving



None.

Apr 27 2013, 10:31 pm Thanase Post #22



Could it be because I have p1-p6 selected for players?



None.

Apr 27 2013, 10:32 pm Azrael Post #23



You should attach the map, or send it to me via PM.




Apr 27 2013, 11:01 pm Thanase Post #24



Anyone have any ideas?



None.

Apr 27 2013, 11:02 pm Azrael Post #25



The PM didn't have a file attached. Make sure you hit the confirmation button after selecting the file.




Apr 27 2013, 11:23 pm Roy Post #26

An artist's depiction of an Extended Unit Death

Quote from Thanase
Anyone have any ideas?
Azrael's already answered your question: the reason you're the only one dropping is because you made a sender trigger (which runs for you) but no receiver trigger (which runs for everyone else), so when your trigger fires, it only fires for you, which causes your game state to be different than everyone else's. When this happens, SC splits the game into two, putting you in one game and everyone else in the other. See my explanation on synchronization in Section 5 of my EPD tutorial.

Furthermore, as Azrael has already mentioned: even after providing a receiver trigger, there's no guarantee that players will not drop from one another. I tried explaining it in a previous post in this thread:
Quote from Roy
DISCLAIMER: Almost all of the information I learned about below is a direct result of Azrael's hard work and testing with the player chat system. I take no credit for his discoveries and only offer the analysis we concluded from his findings.

Display text detection is not technically a global EUD: if you send a display text message to only one player, you can desync them by detecting that text and doing a global action off of it. In the same respect, player chat is not technically a global EUD: players can send and receive whispers or send to allies / a specific player in-game. Therefore, the player chat generation provided by this program isn't necessarily "safe" in this regard.

Furthermore, timing for messages sent and received by players is not synced to the game (unlike Display Text Message): messages are sent to the server, which then broadcasts it to the players as soon as it can. This has been measured (thanks to lil-Inferno and Origin for helping me and Azrael with measuring these numbers) to vary by as many as 5 hypertrigger cycles (and potentially more) to be received by all players. The reason this is an issue is because it means some triggers can fire on earlier trigger cycles for some players than for others, which would cause a desync on the end of that particular cycle. I currently do not know a remedy to this issue, and if you want to have chat detection as a mechanic in your multiplayer game, you'll have to regulate using a global timer when to execute chat actions (e.g., have a countdown timer and queue chat commands to run when the timer hits 0) and rely that your players won't attempt to send a chat command near the time that processing the actions occurs.

For this reason, player chat detection is significantly less effective than I had originally realized. Chat detection works pretty well has a noticeable chance of working without desynchronizing for a single chat command in maps that do not have hyper triggers, because the chances that the trigger will execute when not all players have received the message are decreased significantly. Raw chat detection on a map with hyper triggers will desync without fail.

TL;DR: Fuck text detection.
If you did indeed set up the receiver trigger correctly as you claim in your previous post, it's very likely you're encountering the above scenario.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Apr 27 2013, 11:30 pm by Roy.




Apr 27 2013, 11:40 pm Thanase Post #27



Damn. What is a good alternative for what I am trying to do besides text eud?

I want to on command set a certain switch (only certain player names can do it)



None.

Apr 27 2013, 11:46 pm Roy Post #28

An artist's depiction of an Extended Unit Death

Traditionally, this is accomplished in a number of ways:

1) Have a building such as a Barracks with the ability to build a unit, and when the player has built the unit (or has spent the resources to build it), fire the trigger.
2) Have the unit inside a Dropship, and detect when they have been ejected from the Dropship (using a location with only land flags checked) to fire the trigger.
3) Have the player kill a particular unit in the corner of the map (like how you'd see a banning system implemented in some custom games).

You don't necessarily need EUDs for your scenario, and EUDs should generally be treated as a last-resort implementation. If you want more help on what you're trying to do, post a topic in the UMS Assistance forum. Be sure to provide enough details (such as what you're trying to accomplish, what preferences you have, what you cannot do, and generally what your map is) to get good responses.




Apr 27 2013, 11:55 pm Thanase Post #29



Okay, thanks.
It's just weird though, because I had a friend that was good with EUDS.
He made a map where he had a banning system and other stuff run by text EUDS.
They never failed or dropped anybody.
I'm looking for the map now.



None.

Apr 28 2013, 12:13 am Azrael Post #30



Quote from Thanase
He made a map where he had a banning system and other stuff run by text EUDS.
They never failed or dropped anybody.

EUD text detection works really well for banning systems, and technically, they did drop someone: the person being banned.

Modifying your trigger:

Players: Force 1

Conditions:
(sending)player "yoo" says on row between 1 and 11 "set round 15"

Actions:
clear switch 1
set switch 15

You can make it ban someone like this:

Players: Player 2

Conditions:
(Receiving) Player "yoo" says on row between 1 and 11 "ban player 2"

Actions:
Display text for current player: "You are banned!"



Players: Force 1

Conditions:
Text on row between 1 and 11 is "You are banned!"

Actions:
Kill all units for all players.

To be able to ban Players 3, 4, etc, you'd give them each their own copy of the first trigger. The second trigger would be shared by everyone.




May 11 2013, 9:07 pm Thanase Post #31



Roy, the download link for the hack detection is a link to a removed file.
Do you still have it?



None.

May 11 2013, 11:23 pm Veta Post #32



This is pretty good.



None.

Jun 23 2013, 3:27 pm Roy Post #33

An artist's depiction of an Extended Unit Death

During the one-hour mapping contest last night, Azrael found a bug with detecting plague, so I went to try and figure out the issue. Then I realized the bug reported by SHANE-009 a while back was actually more significant than I had originally thought, so I decided to quickly make a patch for EUDGen. Sorry that it's short on new features, but it should at least function better than the previous version.

Version 2.0.3:
  • "Add Comment" selection is remembered
  • Fixed issue where EPDs with negative memory values would fail to calculate
  • Fixed calculations for Irradiate/Stasis/Plague/Storm statuses under the Unit Status EUD


Quote from Thanase
Roy, the download link for the hack detection is a link to a removed file.
While I responded to Thanase in a PM a while ago, I just want to confirm here that the link has been updated. I've received reports that the detections aren't working as expected, however, so do use them with caution and test them thoroughly if you decide to implement them in your map.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jun 23 2013, 3:34 pm by Roy.




Jul 13 2013, 2:53 pm BloodyZombie117 Post #34

I have no idea what to put here... So I guess I'll just put this here.

Do these triggers require you to use an EUD Enabler?
If it's dependent on which ones... Unit HP modifying. (Adding in particular)
Also, I've seen maps with EUDs that work without an enabler (Middle of the Ocean 3 and Tower of Dreams are good examples)
If I could get the HP trigger to work without enablers, I'd be extremely happy about it (Due to the fact that I run Vanilla Brood War all the time, and I figure most people do too... I don't really know, I'm not most people).

Secondly, I keep getting a map export error where it can't inject my triggers. Also, the text doesn't compile when I copy it into SCMD2's text-editor.




Jul 13 2013, 3:01 pm jjf28 Post #35

Cartography Artisan

EUD conditions work without an enabler, EUD actions require an enabler.

Middle of the ocean 3 uses a relatively new exploit called EUPs http://www.staredit.net/topic/15356/
Tower of dream uses a number of tricks including http://www.staredit.net/topic/14250/ but I don't know it to use EUD actions


Editing HP with EUDs specifically won't work without an enabler, though detecting hp levels will.



Rs_yes-im4real - Clan Aura - jjf28.net84.net

Reached the top of StarCraft theory crafting 2:12 AM CST, August 2nd, 2014.

Jul 13 2013, 3:03 pm BloodyZombie117 Post #36

I have no idea what to put here... So I guess I'll just put this here.

Alright... What about EUP's then?
And also, thanks.




Jul 13 2013, 3:14 pm jjf28 Post #37

Cartography Artisan

The same EUPs that work on windows aren't known to work on mac; but since you're using EUDs i'll assume you're not worried about that.

With our current knowledge of EUPs we could not increase the HP of a unit continuously, you would do it a certain amount of times and be done (unless you also decreased it and were using a give/give extended unit).

we have perhaps 30 non give/give units (so could change a finite amount of unit hp with them)
and ~3 give/give units (limiting you to changing ~3 units' hp)

Currently, EUPs aren't going to cut it for most HP modifying purposes. Though if your units health is <= 100 you can use set hitpoints just fine after detecting HP with EUD conditions, and if you're not picky about little differences it will work for units of almost any health.



Rs_yes-im4real - Clan Aura - jjf28.net84.net

Reached the top of StarCraft theory crafting 2:12 AM CST, August 2nd, 2014.

Jul 13 2013, 3:16 pm BloodyZombie117 Post #38

I have no idea what to put here... So I guess I'll just put this here.

Quote from jjf28
Currently, EUPs aren't going to cut it for most HP modifying purposes. Though if your units health is <= 100 you can use set hitpoints just fine after detecting HP with EUD conditions, and if you're not picky about little differences it will work for units of almost any health.

This would actually work. Sure it wouldn't be as easy, but that would take the fun out of things, am I right? lol
Thanks for the help. Now I just need to figure out what's wrong with the map export feature.




Jul 13 2013, 4:21 pm Azrael Post #39



Quote from BloodyZombie117
Unit HP modifying. (Adding in particular)

If you mean healing, that's pretty straightforward to do using EUD conditions. Units only take damage between cycles, so you can just check the unit's HP at the beginning of each cycle, then set a DC based on that, then modify (add/subtract) from that DC, and then set the health percentage based on the DC at the end of the cycle.




Jul 13 2013, 6:31 pm BloodyZombie117 Post #40

I have no idea what to put here... So I guess I'll just put this here.

Quote from Azrael
Quote from BloodyZombie117
Unit HP modifying. (Adding in particular)

If you mean healing, that's pretty straightforward to do using EUD conditions. Units only take damage between cycles, so you can just check the unit's HP at the beginning of each cycle, then set a DC based on that, then modify (add/subtract) from that DC, and then set the health percentage based on the DC at the end of the cycle.

Thanks a lot. I now can add stuff to my Zombie map and my other project.
And these work in multiplayer right?
Just gotta make sure.




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