I don't normally write in Srs discussion, because I do not take SEN time very seriously.
However, today I have a very serious message for all of you.



I live in Vancouver, and I was a donator to Greenpeace, so I have heard of the pipeline projects and the petitions.
But this video was able to open my eyes to how truly horrific and devastating tar sands are
What disgusts me the most is how I was a part of it.
We are all a part of it.

I'm a Canadian, yet I am completely unaware that the Harper government had such a plan. We are all part of it, because the pipeline's main goal is to ship oil to the US and foreign countries.

I know we are a small voice, but be heard and raise awareness.

I have joined the "Stop the Pipeline" list, where I will be informed about upcoming campaigns to stop the pipelines. (www.greenpeace.ca/pipeline)
I am prepared to donate a significant amount to it.
I will also be writing letters to my leaders. I know this may sound like throwing a rock into an ocean, but if we all just cannot sit and do nothing. I suggest that if you live in Canada, or any states that will be affected by the pipeline, that you step out of your comfort zone and take action.
It will not take too much effort. Don't let this happen.
I do not want my children, which I've mostly decided will be Canadian based, to have to face the destruction of the tar sands.
We cannot let the environment slip away from us.

This is all happening because of peak oil. If we had a bountiful supply of cheap oil from the middle east, we wouldn't need Canada's tar sands.

Tar sands are a symptom of a much much greater problem.

this is all happening because of oil-dependency. if we had an infinity supply of cheap renewable energy from our own countries, we wouldn't need anybody else's fuel.

oil-dependency is a symptom of a much much greater problem.

Totally On topic... for once.

Thank you tempz

I think the biggest milestone that we need to accomplish as citizens is to show that we will not accept tar sands.
Tar sands are proven to be the worse type of oil there is, as it causes the most harm to the environment than any other oil extraction methods.

What we need to do is to step up and call out this problem.
We really cannot let this happen.

Nawww.... We need to put out those peat fires in indonesia!

I'm not saying I support big oil but the jobs issues are really quite pressing too... However the first video in this thread really hits the nail on the head in terms of the severity of the situation. We can't just all live like the natives though, because we would soon hunt the animals to extinction. The native way of life, while sustainable, can only sustain a low population. Some of the more prosperous native groups on the west coast had higher populations, they had cities, sanitation problems, crime problems, they were not that much different from us in some ways.

I blame this on the friggin universe. The universe is a jerk. If the universe wasn't a jerk, it would not be so hard to have the things we need to live, like energy. The clean energy movement is very naive, every wind and solar project out there is nothing but a subsidy burning your tax dollars away. If the whole world were wind and solar you wouldn't be able to afford the electricity for your computer and internet connection to allow you to read this forum post. You would be trying to use as little as possible just cooking your food. Generally, the "degree" of civilization you can have depends on the energy available. Rome had water, Imperialist Europe had coal, and now we have Oil and Fission. Fusion would be a nice next step, but the research is moving very slowly. Thorium Fission is another nice up-and-coming thing. No matter what though the fuel for any of these processes has to be mined from somewhere and that's always a rough deal.

If we stop the tar sands without a cost-effective alternative (solar and wind dont count here obviously) then we simply can't support our population and our "degree" of civilization. This ties into the thread on One Child Policy. The Tar Sands are a b**** but so are all the other choices, including simply not having the energy. Much unrest, poverty, disease, starvation, and general misery and death will occur.

I just skimmed through the video.

The Canadian government is responsible for the happiness of the Canadian people. The happiness of Canadians is largely dependent on economic conditions. The government has judged that selling oil and ruining these small parts of the Canadian environment are worth it economically. Ugly sights far from civilization have a far smaller effect on Canadian happiness than does the positive economic effect from selling the energy.

In light of this, where is the incentive for the government not to go through with this? Why would you *want* the government not to go through with this? Why do you care about the beauty of a tiiiiny part of the wilderness?

Because we will soon not have any wilderness left. Or did you not watch the video?

What good is wilderness if you are bankrupting yourself by going to the grocery store to feed yourself? The food gets to the grocery store on a truck which burns diesel fuel. In "nice" cases, the truck is only a portion of the trip and a train, which is more efficient, but still burns fuel, does most of the distance. This is when you see a truck that says "Intermodal" on it and the trailer is just a flatbed type of thing with a standardized container on it, which can also be put on trains and ships. But you ALWAYS need a truck for at least "within your state/province" type distances. In the Northwest Territories and Nunavut, because of the distances involved, a bag of milk which is typically $4 or $5 in the Toronto area where I live is instead $14. That's the kind of prices we would pay if we wanted to convert our trucks and trains to natural gas or electric. All the environmentally friendly energy sources are so expensive it would rape our economy if implemented accross the board. Public debt would soar, Unemployment would make Greece look good, Crime would then sky-rocket, and life would be shit... but hey, we saved the squirrels!

Hi Guys,

Found another youtube video about the Tar Sands, but specifically about the Northern Pipeline proposal towards northern bc.



Skip to 27:15 if you want the details.

It is now clear to me that if this pipeline proposal were to be greenlighted, there WILL be Oil Spills in that area. It's not a matter of If anymore. The super-tanker's proposed route is dangerous and will completely destroy the ecosystem, more so than the Mexico Golf spill did, as the entire ecosystem is dependant on Salmon. What's worse is that the oil is shipped from Alberta's Tar Sands.

Help raise awareness and tell everyone you know who'd care.