Staredit Network > Forums > SC1 UMS Mapmaking Assistance > Topic: [SOLVED] Mobile to Static Grid
[SOLVED] Mobile to Static Grid
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Mar 31 2012, 7:42 am
By: SinistrouS  

Mar 31 2012, 7:42 am SinistrouS Post #1



I have tried to utilize the scourge&observer 3x3 grid and 5x5 grid, but they always drift apart. Searching has ceased no results with an actual map that has a fully functional scourge&observer grid. Though, I've seen many screen shots of them "working", but I can't tell if the screen shot was taken before they drifted or not (if they even are drifting in the first place).

Basically, I've been trying to create the mobile grid first, and then create the static grid in relation to the mobile grid above. The units drift apart way too fast to place the static grid below (I haven't exhausted all ideas to fix that problem, though it would be MUCH easier if they didn't drift). I would use Mutalisk grid, but they are far too large for what I'm trying to achieve.



None.

Mar 31 2012, 8:16 am JaFF Post #2



I may be misunderstanding what you're saying, but I think you're not removing them instantly. You need to remove them in the same trigger cycle as you've created them. That way, they won't have any time to go anywhere.



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Mar 31 2012, 8:41 am SinistrouS Post #3



I have considered that, but then how would I lay the other grid? Unless there's a way to make "Location A" place a drone where there is a scourge and no drone already there.
For example.
Trigger
Players
  • Player 1
  • Conditions
  • Bring("Current Player", "Zerg Drone", "Location A", Exactly, 0);
  • Bring("Current Player", "Zerg Scourge", "Location A", Exactly, 1);
  • Actions
  • Create Unit("Current Player", "Zerg Drone", 1, "Location A");
  • Preserve Trigger


  • I guess the only problem I would be facing is how to make "Location A" continue to cycle through the scourge's (While satisfying the above conditions).

    I feel like it's on the tip of my tongue, but I can't spit it out. I'm definitely over-thinking this.

    -------
    The lag effect is essentially what I was trying to get this to do. If only I hadn't forgotten that air units could produce the same effect as burrowed units, I would have been long passed this subject.

    I would still like to see how the above would be possible. "Location A" thing. And without the use of changing ownership to more than one player.

    Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Mar 31 2012, 9:04 am by SinistrouS.



    None.

    Mar 31 2012, 9:08 am JaFF Post #4



    1. Create mobile grid as described in the wiki article.
    2. Center location A on Scourge, remove Scourge at location A, create Drone at location A. Repeat as many times as you need.



    None.

    Mar 31 2012, 9:14 am SinistrouS Post #5



    How am I supposed to keep that location moving consistently, while the scourges (and observers, not that they matter) are constantly being removed and re-created?



    None.

    Mar 31 2012, 9:15 am NudeRaider Post #6

    We can't explain the universe, just describe it; and we don't know whether our theories are true, we just know they're not wrong. >Harald Lesch

    I'm not sure what you're trying to do. If you want a trigger that constantly creates a drone underneath a zerg scourge you don't need a mobile grid, but a location following the scourge. Like

    C: Always
    A: Center Location A on Scourge at Anywhere (or if there's more scourges at Location A might work)
    A: Create 1 Drone at Location A
    A: Preserve

    Mobile grids are used when you want to create a unit not right on top of each other, but offset in a direction, e.g. create a drone top left of the scourge. And as JaFF already said, you create the grid, place your location(s) and then remove the units, all in the same trigger so that the units used to create the grid are neither seen nor have any time to drift apart. Just the locations are leftover and can be used at your leisure. Despite what the screenshots look like, a properly used mobile grid will not leave any visible units behind. The wiki just shows you a delayed version of a mobile grid where the units can be seen to show you the pattern in which the units get created. Normally it will be instant.




    Mar 31 2012, 9:28 am SinistrouS Post #7



    I'm trying to have a mobile grid (doesn't have to be a mobile grid, just a grid that uses 1x1 units. eg. Scourges) create an identical static grid below the "mobile grid" using burrowed units.. I probably should have just said that to begin with.

    Doing this with a 3x3 mutalisk grid is extremely simple. But when you add the drifting factor of the 1x1 grids, it makes it tedious.



    None.

    Mar 31 2012, 9:31 am Jack Post #8

    >be faceless void >mfw I have no face

    Ok so you need to create the mobile grid units in one trigger. Then, in the same trigger, center a location on a scourge, remove the scourge, create the burrowed unit you want there. Center on an observer, do the same. Then a scourge, do the same, and so on till all 9 units have been replaced with burrowed units.

    EDIT
    Wait are you saying that the units are physically drifting or are you talking about them being created offset rather than perfectly square?



    Red classic.

    "In short, their absurdities are so extreme that it is painful even to quote them."

    Mar 31 2012, 9:36 am Lanthanide Post #9



    Quote from NudeRaider
    Despite what the screenshots look like, a properly used mobile grid will not leave any visible units behind. The wiki just shows you a delayed version of a mobile grid where the units can be seen to show you the pattern in which the units get created. Normally it will be instant.
    Not entirely true. If SC is running slowly, either from lag, or running on Slowest speed (as in a replay), you can sometimes (always?) see the units that are created and removed in a single trigger cycle. But 'normally' the units will not be seen by players.



    None.

    Mar 31 2012, 9:56 am SinistrouS Post #10



    Quote from Jack
    Ok so you need to create the mobile grid units in one trigger. Then, in the same trigger, center a location on a scourge, remove the scourge, create the burrowed unit you want there. Center on an observer, do the same. Then a scourge, do the same, and so on till all 9 units have been replaced with burrowed units.

    EDIT
    Wait are you saying that the units are physically drifting or are you talking about them being created offset rather than perfectly square?

    That is exactly what I tried to do. I tried it on a 5x5 grid for hours, sadly enough. By the time they started to drift, I had a few (don't know the exact amount) burrowed units perfectly centered where they were meant to be. The other burrowed units would be off-centered, due to the drifting. The triggers would not create the burrowed unit, remove the scourge/observer, and center the location fast enough to make up for the physical drifting caused by the units above. Never had any issues with the grid being offset.



    None.

    Mar 31 2012, 10:01 am Jack Post #11

    >be faceless void >mfw I have no face

    Uh.

    Have you got hyper triggers?

    And can you please copy and paste your exact triggers from TrigEdit in SCMDraft to here? Not Classic TrigEdit, the other text trigedit



    Red classic.

    "In short, their absurdities are so extreme that it is painful even to quote them."

    Mar 31 2012, 10:40 am SinistrouS Post #12



    Collapse Box


    The larger the grid is, the more time they have to drift.

    Lets say I'm using a 3x3 grid (observers and scourges) with the Remove Unit action, how would this affect the map limit in terms of sprites, units, etc?

    Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Mar 31 2012, 11:39 am by SinistrouS.



    None.

    Mar 31 2012, 8:10 pm Jack Post #13

    >be faceless void >mfw I have no face

    Your hyper triggers should have more Wait's in them, as far as I know. Max out the amount of actions (64) so you have a preserve trigger, a comment, and 62 Wait(0)'s in each of those hypertriggers.

    The trigger which creates the scourges and observers should be above the triggers which remove them.

    Ah, now I see. You'll also need to have all the scourges and observers removed in one trigger cycle. So the two triggers which remove scourges and create the static grid need to be duplicated so that there are 12 remove observer triggers and 13 remove scourge triggers. Otherwise it will take too long for the scourges and observers to be removed.



    Red classic.

    "In short, their absurdities are so extreme that it is painful even to quote them."

    Mar 31 2012, 8:22 pm Azrael Post #14



    Quote from Jack
    Have you got hyper triggers?

    Mobile grids don't require hyper triggers since all units created need to be removed in the same trigger cycle anyways.

    Edit:

    Quote from Jack
    Your hyper triggers should have more Wait's in them, as far as I know.

    It's recommended to have at least 62 waits in each hyper trigger. Right now your hypers will have a 1.3 second pause every 40 minutes.

    Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Mar 31 2012, 8:57 pm by Azrael.




    Mar 31 2012, 9:28 pm TiKels Post #15



    Trigger
    Players
  • Player 1
  • Conditions
  • Always (or whatever)
  • Actions
  • Create 1 scourge
  • Create 1 observer
  • Create 1 scourge
  • Create 1 observer
  • Create 1 scourge
  • Create 1 observer
  • Create 1 scourge
  • Create 1 observer
  • Create 1 scourge
  • Center location [balls] on scourge
  • remove scourge at [balls]
  • create 1 drone with property of burrow
  • Center location [balls] on observer
  • remove observer at [balls]
  • create 1 drone with property of burrow
  • Center location [balls] on scourge
  • remove scourge at [balls]
  • create 1 drone with property of burrow
  • Center location [balls] on observer
  • remove observer at [balls]
  • create 1 drone with property of burrow
  • Center location [balls] on scourge
  • remove scourge at [balls]
  • create 1 drone with property of burrow
  • Center location [balls] on observer
  • remove observer at [balls]
  • create 1 drone with property of burrow
  • Center location [balls] on scourge
  • remove scourge at [balls]
  • create 1 drone with property of burrow
  • Center location [balls] on observer
  • remove observer at [balls]
  • create 1 drone with property of burrow
  • Center location [balls] on scourge
  • remove scourge at [balls]
  • create 1 drone with property of burrow


  • This is really all you need. Really. Just copy it exactly into your map. This will create a 3x3 grid of burrowed drones. Srs.

    Oh, also, scourge/observer doesn't work outside of a 3x3 grid. You have to make another grid on the edge of the 3x3 grid to work outside of it. I'm not sure how everyone missed this.

    If you don't quite understand what i mean, imagine a 3x3 mobile grid.
    876
    915
    234

    We are going to want to remove all the air units and then create a grid around the corners...

    I will show you the top left corner as an example.
    00000
    0
    8760
    0
    9150
    0
    2340
    00000


    From the 8 spot, we are able to create units at these spots using a 3x3 mobile grid:
    00000
    08760
    0
    9150
    0
    2340
    00000

    The only ones we care about are the zeros. After making sure to put a marker on the 2 6 and 4 spot so that we can repeat this process on them in a bit, remove all the air units and then do a mobile grid on the 8 spot and create burrowed drones on the green zeroes.

    Repeat at the other corners, taking into consideration that the mobile grids will have a few zeroes in common with the other grids.

    A little garbled, but i think you get the idea.

    Post has been edited 4 time(s), last time on Mar 31 2012, 9:52 pm by TiKels.



    "If a topic that clearly interest noone needs to be closed to underline the "we don't want this here" message, is up to debate."

    -NudeRaider

    Apr 1 2012, 12:02 am Jack Post #16

    >be faceless void >mfw I have no face

    I was not aware that scourges and observers couldn't make a larger-than-3x3 grid :0 why is that?



    Red classic.

    "In short, their absurdities are so extreme that it is painful even to quote them."

    Apr 1 2012, 12:25 am SinistrouS Post #17



    I believe he means 3x3 is the maximum when trying to have them work in 1 cycle, while maintaining a perfect grid.

    Thanks Tikels, I knew there was something that I missed.



    None.

    Apr 1 2012, 2:14 am TiKels Post #18



    Sinistrous, you can do more than one mobile grid in one trigger CYCLE. But you would have to remove the other units using the "Remove Units" action before doing another one.

    Would you like a quick example?

    Quote from Jack
    I was not aware that scourges and observers couldn't make a larger-than-3x3 grid :0 why is that?
    It's because of the way sc checks space. It's kinda like how you can't make a 3x3 grid using 1x1 units. Scourges are smaller than 1x1 and observers are exactly 1x1. I don't think it's a detail anyone has every researched in any great amount of detail.



    "If a topic that clearly interest noone needs to be closed to underline the "we don't want this here" message, is up to debate."

    -NudeRaider

    Apr 1 2012, 3:09 am SinistrouS Post #19



    Thanks, but no thanks. I can now make whatever sized grid I'd need by using the corners of a single 3x3 (the method you described).

    There is only one issue that remains for me. Would it be better to use scourges/observers constantly dying at one area? And for the sake of argument, it will be a 7x7 grid, so 49 units constantly being created and removed. Or would it be better to use the scourges/observers to create a 7x7 grid out of burrowed drones? Also, the drones will be constantly cycling through the current player to p11. Both methods serve the purpose of creating the unit movement "lag" to all units who are in the 7x7 area. And all 8 players have the opportunity to have those triggers running, at maximum 392 units are going to be affected. So in terms of map limitations, which is the best method to use?



    None.

    Apr 1 2012, 4:16 am TiKels Post #20



    When you are doing a mobile grid, even off of a corner, you CANNOT have any air units. Ones from a previous mobile grid MUST be removed (in almost EVERY instance, with this being no exception). You should have to create 9 obs and scourges, center loc or place a marker on the 4 corners, remove all the obs/scourge, create new ones on a corner, place markers, remove scourge/obs, repeat the corners step.

    Also if it wasn't clear, always use "remove unit at location" and NEVER "kill unit at location" when doing mobile grids. Always.

    A 7x7 grid? That's pretty big!

    I don't really understand your question.

    I hope you are aware that when you create an air unit above a unit, it will slow down the unit briefly. If you repeat it it will slow down the unit dramatically.



    "If a topic that clearly interest noone needs to be closed to underline the "we don't want this here" message, is up to debate."

    -NudeRaider

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