Destiny & God
Post #81
Oh_Man
Jan 7 2012, 4:24 am
Post #82
Vrael
Jan 7 2012, 10:12 pm
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Clearly this is the crux of the matter, maybe I have driven us off track somehow. Consider the alternative: an omnipotent being must be able to make decisions with restraint, otherwise it is incapable of something and therefore not omnipotent. For clarity, I'm assuming "to make decisions freely" means "to make a decision that requires free will" and "to make a decision with restraint" to mean "to make a decision without free will." If an omnipotent being must be capable of both then I'm simply wrong, it would seem that it must simultaneously both have free will and not have free will, an impossibility which I should have noticed from the beginning. Or perhaps at some times it has one but not the other, but if for even a moment it does have free will then I agree that it must have free will.
My quarrel with "omnipotence => free will" lies within the common usage of time as a standard in dealing with things independent of time. For example, suppose this omnipotent God "currently" doesn't have free will because he is performing an action which requires him to not have free will (which is a question worthy of its own exploration, 'are there actions which are impossible to perform with free will?'), if he didn't have the capability to have free will "later" he wouldn't be omnipotent. As long as he does have the capability he's still omnipotent. Thank you for re-explaining yourself. If you had simply made the effort at the beginning to fully develop the idea we could have avoided this entire discussion, just to answer your question from many posts ago again, though I suppose some interesting questions arise, of the form "Can God make a taco so hot that he himself cannot eat it?" and other questions concerning the contradictory nature of omnipotence. I'm glad you weren't trolling me. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Post #83
Sacrieur
Jan 8 2012, 4:13 am
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I suppose I should flesh out the discussion. I'll use the word ability in place of power, only because power has a specific scientific definition.
Omnipotence, while it applies to a deity, I feel should apply only to the ability a deity (or for that matter, a person) possesses. My reason is rather simple. We describe a machine capable of lifting up to 300 kg certainly capable of lifting a rock of 150 kg. We would say the machine has the ability to lift 150 kg rock. This machine, as it is controlled by humans, is unable to make any decisions -- it lacks any free-will. I think omnipotence is rather daunting to discuss. Its very nature seems to defy logic; but I digress that it doesn't have to, and that the definition of omnipotence must fit into a logical framework. It seems to me, at least, that the word is merely a descriptor and adjective of ability, describing the "to what extent" category. In fact, I would be so bold to equate it to "to all extents". The problem, then, is what is ability. If ability requires a decision, either conscious or not, then do hurricanes not have the ability to destroy houses because they are incapable of making decisions? ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() × ÷ ± · ∫ ƒ | ⅛ ¼ ⅓ ⅜ ½ ⅝ ⅔ ¾ ⅞ | π φ ∞ | ≡ ≈ ≥ ≤ ∴ ¬ ∩ Ø | √ ª ⁿ º ¹ ² ³ | ✓ ✗ | א
α β Γγ ∆∂ ε ζ η Θθ Ιι κ Λλ μ Ξξ Π ρ Σσς τ υ Φ Ψψ Ωω |
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