If Jon had known about the Knights of the Vale, he, not being the best tactician, would've just had them on the battlefield with the rest of the men. Seeing this large force, Ramsey would have just retreated to Winterfell and held out there. They wouldn't have been able to storm the gate with that many archers along the walls. The only reason Wun Wun was able to break down the door was because there were only a couple of archers on the wall, and he still died. Imagine if there had been an entire army there shooting arrows at him. The only way to beat Ramsey was to catch him off-guard, and the only way to do that was to flank his men after they had already committed. Jon wouldn't have agreed with that plan, since he didn't think much of Sansa's advice, so he would've just had them charge with the other men, and like I said, Ramsey wouldn't have fought that.

A much better way to do this and also satisfy people's complaints about dumbness is to simply have Sansa say to John in that room "I have a plan..." then it cuts to the next scene and then the battle goes accordingly but then the Vale shows up in a way that surprises the viewers but not the characters themselves as they had planned for Vale to flank from behind at a strategically significant time.

They could then have also deleted that scene where Sansa writes on parchment, making the Vale arrival less obvious to viewers. Ramsay would not have known to retreat to Winterfell because the Vale would still be kept as a surprise attack, like it was in the show as is.

This way John would have had more agency as he would have been in on Sansa's plan. As it is now it's more like Sansa is really the true victor here while John has been saved by her. You can't really say what Jon may or may not have done because let's be honest you can't make claims to his character like that. His character does whatever the writers want him to do.

It's plausible, but a lot of speculation. If it was actually what GRRM imagined, you gotta show some of these backgrounds, and not just hope everyone implies it, to make the characters believable.



My whole point is that if you KNOW you'll likely lose you have 2 options: Don't fight, or fight. If you do fight you DO EVERYTHING to make it happen. You KNOW if you become an emotional baby or mindless zealot you are gonna die AND lose. You go to battle WITH THAT MINDSET. You are focused. Seeing none of that was a disappointment, especially since they KNEW their brother is practically already lost and the sadist WILL USE THAT psychologically. I would have liked to see Jon evolve from his emotionally driven past after all he's been through and the responsibility he bears now. That would've been badass. It could have easily been shown that DESPITE THEIR BEST EFFORTS they lose because of being underequipped and too understaffed. Sorry, but I just don't enjoy watching grown up men being idiots when EVERYTHING is at stake.



I'd like to remind you of my disclaimer:
and of my specific complaint:
The amount of cool shit was MORE THAN sufficient. It was just not spread well enough.
The siege / dragon fight could've easily been in earlier episodes. And packing the boring 'Bran learns his past' parts after cool scenes.

Btw. I don't need mass fighting / CGI scenes with huge budgets to be happy. Typical GoT-moments like 'red wedding' or 'hold the door' are even more powerful imo. They really set this show apart. So after several hours without either I get less happy, obviously.



Also
needs more tits.


oh and sorry for the caps. I was too lazy to use tags.

If I remember right, part of their strategy meeting was that they didn't have enough men to pull of a proper strategy.




The whole thing about Sansa being ashamed of asking the Vale for help. Asking Littlefinger for help. I mean when she ran into Jon she probably told him all about his manipulative ass.

Well, Loveless, check out this video.


Anyone feel like everything the actors said isn't actually reflected in the episodes?? They seem to make out there's some hectic Sansa and Jon rivalry developing. I just don't see it.

They made that last scene where she looks at Littlefinger out to be some kind of, "What the hell..." Though didn't Littlefinger sit there telling her off that she needs to take the reigns because nobody is going to back a bastard? Then they did so and he was completely wrong.

Or am I missing something?

I really hope he doesn't kill little lady Mormont.

I interpreted the look more as: "the ladder just got 10 feet higher"