Quote from FaZ-

Why does anyone want to get married?

Financial reasons and two people who actually desire to be together forever. Raise a family (adoption, using those vialed sperms)

Also want to point out there are such things as gay Christians. Gay Christians actually believe that God will not turn away from them and they can continue their lifestyle and marry. Since these people are religious, doesn't that mean they should be able to marry?

For the government perks and other legal matters that come with marriage, perhaps. In the U.S., if you aren't married, then there are a lot of things you can't do just because you've been dating for a decade.

So what if its very religious? Does that suggest that gay people can't be religious because their religion wont let them marry?

Quote from Jack[RCDF

I have the feeling there are plenty of homosexuals who don't want to get married simply because they don't want to be seen as copying the hetereosexual way; perhaps lanth could confirm or deny this.

Some homosexuals, I suppose, may not want to get married for that reason. The vast majority, however, would like the tax benefits. Why should others stop them? Gay marriage (or civil unions, or whatever you want to call them) don't harm anyone.

Quote from DevliN

So what if [marriage is] very religious? Does that suggest that gay people can't be religious because their religion wont let them marry?

Exactly. And who's to say that your religion is the only correct one? What if there is a religion that says heterosexual marriages are forbidden? Separation of church and state -> churches should marry whomever they please.

lol I'm surprised no one mention that people will marry another person financial stability or a green card, this of course is a very small percentage of marriages.

Well not everyone is liberal; alot of people are conservative... And when asked directly only about half will allow it or deny it for whatever reason.

Quote from rayNimagi

Separation of church and state -> churches should marry whomever they please.

The separation of Church and State means the State can marry whomever they please. The Church can selectively marry according to whatever flawed doctrines they follow.

Quote from DevliN

Call me a romantic, but I was under the impression that most people get married for love, then the government breaks, then lastly because perhaps the Bible said so.

All my gay fiends who want to get married want to do so for love.

What does it mean to say one marries 'for love'. Extrapolate on that.

I always thought marriage was a way of formalizing the relationship. The couple already knows they are in love, marriage is just a way to show everyone else, to make it official, to celebrate it with their family and friends.

Quote from Jack[RCDF

Quote from DevliN

Quote from Jack[RCDF

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Why did your parents want to get married? Why does anyone want to get married?

Because the Bible told them to? ;0

Call me a romantic, but I was under the impression that most people get married for love, then the government breaks, then lastly because perhaps the Bible said so.

That's why people live together, have kids together, etc., but why marriage? It's the standard accepted thing to do but, in its current form, it's very religious, and plenty of people (in NZ at least) don't bother with it anymore.

That's an opinion. I don't think marriage is defined as being particularly religious. Maybe it's just my experience or maybe it's a cultural difference between the US and NZ.

Quote from TiKels

That's an opinion. I don't think marriage is defined as being particularly religious. Maybe it's just my experience or maybe it's a cultural difference between the US and NZ.

I'm AUS not NZ. And it is hardly an opinion. Marriage from practically all cultures can be traced back to religious roots.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage#History_of_marriage_by_culture


Hmmm you may be right. It somewhat looks like that marriage was irreligious, and was later hijacked by religions. Well Jack, I bet you can't be too happy with that.

Quote from Oh_Man

Quote from TiKels

That's an opinion. I don't think marriage is defined as being particularly religious. Maybe it's just my experience or maybe it's a cultural difference between the US and NZ.

I'm AUS not NZ. And it is hardly an opinion. Marriage from practically all cultures can be traced back to religious roots.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage#History_of_marriage_by_culture

I edited my post. I left the tab open, sorry, forgot to refresh.

Edit: LOL@YOUR EDIT.

I suppose good things can come from error now and again.

I also edited my post to concede to your previous post.

I find that very interesting, because I had actually already alluded to the idea of marriage having religious roots. I guess I kinda always assumed it did. I'm gonna have to read that...

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I always thought marriage was a way of formalizing the relationship. The couple already knows they are in love, marriage is just a way to show everyone else, to make it official, to celebrate it with their family and friends.

Exactly. The state shouldn't be involved at all.

Marriage, being religious, is the domain of the church, not the state. Churches should be able to marry whomever they please. If a church decides that they will marry a gay couple, so be it; the state may not agree, I may not agree, but it isn't my place or the state's place to interfere.


I should note that I'm talking about the classic western marriage, which definitely did have religious roots. Other cultures' marriages are probably different, but also aren't ingrained in OUR culture and laws.

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Global Shoutbox
[07:28 pm]
TiKels -- these strings of edits in response to old posts unedited posts are getting ridiculous, when will the chain end?

Jack just entered a new link in the chain.

Quote from Roy

[Marriage] is a sign of commitment, and it is important to many couples, straight or gay.

Just thought I'd reiterate this for the discussion on "why would anyone want to get married?" For better or worse, it is etched into our culture as a step forward in a relationship.

I should edit my post so that I can edit my edit in response to your response to his edited edit.

EDITS WITHIN EDITS WITHIN EDITS, YO

Quote from Jack[RCDF

I should edit my post so that I can edit my edit in response to your response to his edited edit.

EDITS WITHIN EDITS WITHIN EDITS, YO

For histories, so people know what happened:

Read bottom up.

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[07:34 pm] TiKels -- and then I refreshed and saw he had edited
[07:34 pm] TiKels -- funny thing is I was about to respond to Roy
[07:33 pm] TiKels -- NO
[07:32 pm] Jack[RCDF -- STOP EDITING YO POSTS PEOPLE
[07:31 pm] TiKels -- And THEN, jack responded to the post you originally thought I was responding to, with infomation that is now falsified by lieu of you thinking i was responding to you!
[07:30 pm] TiKels -- and yadda yadda
[07:30 pm] TiKels -- and i responded to that
[07:30 pm] TiKels -- and then you responded to my old response
[07:30 pm] TiKels -- and while you were responding to mine i sent mine
[07:30 pm] TiKels -- i responded to your post
[07:30 pm] TiKels -- oh man

But Jack, you are only saying that the marriage is this or that because of your assumption that your religion is correct, everyone else is wrong, and we are all ruled over by a sky daddy.

I believe that marriage is a human construct, and therefore, by my beliefs, the state is very much allowed to marry whoever they want.

Maybe you just don't want to call what the state is doing 'marriage'. Or declare it as a false marriage by heretics. But that doesn't change the fact that the state can still do it. You only think marriage belongs to a 'domain' because of your religious beliefs. Beliefs which myself and many others know to be hopelessly wrong.

So, if you look at it from our POV, perhaps you can concede that the state can marry to. You just would not call it 'proper' marriage.

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I believe that marriage is a human construct, and therefore, by my beliefs, the state is very much allowed to marry whoever they want.

We may disagree on this point; HOWEVER I think we can both agree that western marriage was constructed by the church, governed by the church. Why should the state get involved with a church matter?

Quote from Jack[RCDF

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I believe that marriage is a human construct, and therefore, by my beliefs, the state is very much allowed to marry whoever they want.

We may disagree on this point; HOWEVER I think we can both agree that western marriage was constructed by the church, governed by the church. Why should the state get involved with a church matter?

Quote from Oh_Man

Hmmm you may be right. It somewhat looks like that marriage was irreligious, and was later hijacked by religions. Well Jack, I bet you can't be too happy with that.

WRAUNG

Quote from TiKels

Quote from Jack[RCDF

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I believe that marriage is a human construct, and therefore, by my beliefs, the state is very much allowed to marry whoever they want.

We may disagree on this point; HOWEVER I think we can both agree that western marriage was constructed by the church, governed by the church. Why should the state get involved with a church matter?

Quote from Oh_Man

Hmmm you may be right. It somewhat looks like that marriage was irreligious, and was later hijacked by religions. Well Jack, I bet you can't be too happy with that.

WRAUNG

I confuze. Where does it say that western marriage was not dominated by abrahamic religious groups and reasons?

Quote from Jack[RCDF

We may disagree on this point; HOWEVER I think we can both agree that western marriage was constructed by the church, governed by the church. Why should the state get involved with a church matter?

Well on the wiki link (see prev post by me) I was looking at the part on Ancient Greece and how marriage had no religious connotations back then. Now, from this wiki article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_culturehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_culture) we have this:

Historical records of western culture in its European geographical range begin with Ancient Greece, and then Ancient Rome, Christianization during the European Middle Ages, and reform and modernization starting by Renaissance, and globalized by successive European empires that spread the European ways of life and education between the sixteenth and twentieth centuries.

So, if you can agree with the following two premises:
1. Western culture evolved from Ancient Greek culture.
2. Ancient Greek culture had marriage without religious connotations.
Then you how do you disagree with the conclusion
3. Christianity did not construct western marriage.

Christianity did not construct western marriage. It only hijacked what the Ancient Greeks had, incorporated it into their belief system, and clouded what was a fairly-straightforward procedure with a bunch of religious nonsense.

Quote from Jack[RCDF

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I always thought marriage was a way of formalizing the relationship. The couple already knows they are in love, marriage is just a way to show everyone else, to make it official, to celebrate it with their family and friends.

Exactly. The state shouldn't be involved at all.

Also I just read this again. WTH dude? What do you mean exactly? I am disagreeing with you. How does that quote reinforce the position that the state shouldn't be involved at all?

Quote from Jack[RCDF

I confuze. Where does it say that western marriage was not dominated by abrahamic religious groups and reasons?

Ancient Greece section. You are also making a big leap from Christianity to Abrahamic religions. Before the flip from BCE to CE Judiasm was pretty much the only Abrahamic religion. Christianity amalgamated stuff from Judiasm and Islam further amalgamated stuff from Christianity.