Atheism is a description. If I want to book an appointment and the receptionist asks me which day, I don't say "sunny" because that's not a day.

I like the "bald is not a hair color" analogy better.

Quote from Sacrieur

Quote from Centreri

Muslims are not collectively terrorists, and as such, should not be collectively denied rights. I don't get your point.

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From my personal experience Christianity is the religion that I have the most knowledge of, and the most prevalent in relation to me. There are just more Christians pushing back than anything else in America. But it isn't like we poke fun at Christianity exclusively, if you'd care to venture over to youtube, there was "draw Muhammad" day and more recently, "burn a Koran" day. And if you watch speeches of Richard Dawkins, he assaults all religions equally.

What's interesting to note is the prevalance of a religion by number:


It is shown that Christianity and Islam represent over 50% of the population, so it is no wonder they get flak for it. At the same time:


In America alone Christians represent 80% of the population. That would be your answer sir.

Honestly, I shouldn't get involved, but I have to say this:

Quote

In America alone Christians self-claiming Christians represent 80% of the population.

I guarantee you 75% of those don't really know what they mean when they say they're Christian. Obviously I'm speaking from a standpoint that most of you won't agree with, but that doesn't mean you should ignore it. Christianity, that is, real Christianity, is believing that Christ was born supernaturally, lived a perfect life, and died for the sins of humanity. Then on the third day He rose again, conquering death. That's the basic premise of true Christianity. Going to a self-claiming Christian church doesn't count if you don't actually believe what the religion says. If you haven't read the Bible, if you don't live like Christ as much as possible, if you don't consider eternity to be more valuable than temporality, then you're not a Christian. You can call yourself one, but the premise remains - does going to McDonalds make you a hamburger? No. Does going to church make you a Christian? No.

Not meaning to hijack the thread. I just wanted to clarify something that I believe is misunderstood a lot.

On-topic: Maybe the reason Christianity is so targeted is because it's true and the world doesn't like the truth it proclaims. Honestly - if Christianity is true, 90% of the world's population and probably some huge percentage of the American population is heading straight to Hell when they die. No one wants to be responsible for their actions, and if Christianity is true then everyone is responsible for his or her own actions. Instant hatred of everyone who says that's true because we don't like that truth. Seems simple to me.

I've tried to explain to people that just because someone claims they belong to christianity does not mean they actually follow it.
i.e. if you've ever heard of an Easter Christmas Christian. It's a denomination that makes of 70% of America. They are people who only go to church for Easter and Christmas.
I don't define these people as Christians just because they claim to be. Anyone can claim to be anything, but they aren't going to be right.

I smell a Scotsman... A no true Scotsman fallacy that is.

The term 'Christianity' is a big umbrella term for many different religions with that same basic premise you describe. However, each of those different religions claim THEY are the one 'true' Christian religion, including Catholicism (which is the biggest chunk of the Christianity pie chart).

No one wants to have some pointless argument about which of little sliver of that pie chart is the 'true' Christian religion (because as most people know, it's all hogwash) so we just chuck them all in one big group and call them 'Christian'.


Don't expect anything but confusion if you call yourself a true Christian. Just say it what it is, I'm a Jehovah's Witness, I'm a Catholic, I'm a Protestant, etc. etc.

Quote from Oh_Man

I smell a Scotsman... A no true Scotsman fallacy that is.

The term 'Christianity' is a big umbrella term for many different religions with that same basic premise you describe. However, each of those different religions claim THEY are the one 'true' Christian religion, including Catholicism (which is the biggest chunk of the Christianity pie chart).

No, The pie chart is wrong because although 90% of Americans may claim to be Christian, they do not practice Christianity.
Even if you count Catholics, Protestants, Baptists, and Mormons all together it does not quantify 90% of America. I guarentee it.
Ask yourself honestly
How many people do I know?
How many Christians do I know?
What's the percentage of the first number in the second number.
Unless 50% of America's Christians are all hiding underground, I don't know what kind of screwed up survey they did to get this info.

It's not a No True Scotsman Fallacy. Although on the surface it looks like one. The point he is deriving is that although someone may CALL themselves a christian, they aren't necessarily a Christian nor believe their ideals. If you called yourself a christian right this moment, and you aren't, would it still be a no true Scotsman to retort "No you aren't, true Christians have beliefs"? That's like me saying "This orange isn't an orange because all true oranges are red" and someone "That's a fallacy". Just because someone used the word "true" doesn't make it a fallacy.

If you didn't get it, the point I was making was that (assuming all oranges are orange, which I am) if you consider a characteristic applied to a subject that contradicts its very nature, it isn't a true scotsman to say that it contradicts its very nature. However, it IS a scotsman to say that a feature that is common or ideal (or what have you) in a case as defining.

I'm arguing that to be a Christian you have to follow your beliefs (not perfectly, but at least attempt to with a degree of umpf), not just to say you believe. That will define if it's a no true Scotsman.

Yeh well for starters I live in Australia, it's rather odd that you just assume every other person you know is American, lol. Also I was more addressing Images post then yours. But I will address you now:

Basically you are saying that those 90% are either lying, or ignorant, right? They either know they aren't actually Christian and just pretending to be. Or they think that whatever archaic rites and rituals they perform give them the 'admit one' ticket to heaven. And now we just go back to my previous post, this really just depends which Christian religion you are in. Different religions have different rules and practices that you have to do in order to not have your boss-man in the sky condemn you to eternal, torturous hellfire.

Obviously, you think all their rituals are dumb and meaningless and only YOURS is efficacious... and that's exactly what they think about you as well.

And this is why I think what you are saying is meaningless. Because it really depends which little sliver of the pie chart your on.

Quote from Oh_Man

Yeh well for starters I live in Australia, it's rather odd that you just assume every other person you know is American, lol.

No I didn't
I asked you how many Christians you know.
I did however compare it to the American Pie Chart, so I'll give you a different chart and ask you the same question:

How many people do I know?
How many Christians do I know?
What's the percentage of the first number in the second number?

Quote from Oh_Man

Basically you are saying that those 90% are either lying, or ignorant, right? They either know they aren't actually Christian and just pretending to be. Or they think that whatever archaic rites and rituals they perform give them the 'admit one' ticket to heaven. And now we just go back to my previous post, this really just depends which Christian religion you are in. Different religions have different rules and practices that you have to do in order to not have your boss-man in the sky condemn you to eternal, torturous hellfire.

They could very well be lying, more likely ignorant, or just maybe the survey isn't an accurate sample?
I don't perform any "archaic rites and rituals", and I'm actually a Christian. I'm going to estimate that 95% of the people that I know that call themselves Christian don't perform any kind of archaic rites OR rituals, and 80% of them don't do anything religiously affiliated at all.
I'm not talking about Catholics or Protestants. I'm talking about people who can't name 3 books of the Bible.
You can't believe in something if you don't know what it is.

Quote from Oh_Man

Obviously, you think all their rituals are dumb and meaningless and only YOURS is efficacious... and that's exactly what they think about you as well.

Quote from K_A

I don't perform any "archaic rites and rituals", and I'm actually a Christian.

I don't think anything about anyone's rituals. What they do to show their beliefs is none of my business. If they think I'm not a real Christian that's their problem, not mine.

Opera mini u sucks, losing all my text i writted out.



It is not meaningless. If 80% of Americans call themselves black, they're still not black. Inthe same way, 80% of Americans call themselves Christian, but they're not Christian. The definition of a Christian is not something invented by one particular denomination; rather, there is plain language in the Bible describing how one can behave like a Christian. And most of America does not behave like Christians. Now, of those that DO behave like Christians, some will be faking it and won't go to heaven; THOSE ones we can't separate from a definition of Christianity in this life. But to suggest that 80% of America is Christian is erroneous and foolish.

"Q: How many people go to church each Sunday? A: For years, the Gallup Research Organization has come up with a consistent figure — 40 percent of all Americans, or roughly 118 million people, who said they attended worship on the previous weekend. Recently, sociologists of religion have questioned that figure, saying Americans tend to exaggerate how often they attend. By actually counting the number of people who showed up at representative sample of churches, two researchers, Kirk Hadaway and Penny Marler found that only 20.4 percent of the population, or half the Gallup figure, attended church each weekend."
20.4% is probably the best statistical way to suggest how many Christians are in America; the actual number going to heaven may be lower but again, I don't know which are and which aren't going to heaven, so that's irrelevant for the discussion at hand.

What is the point of determining who is a "true" Christian, or how many Christians there are in America? You're all arguing over miniscule details and fake fallacies, without showing its relevance to any point you want to make in the topic.

Did vrael just post in SD?

On a serious note, I just don't like to see people use "fallacies" incorrectly. ...You know what I mean.

You mean point out fallacies that aren't really those sorts of fallacies?

In any case, I don't know why you're replying to my post when I made an addendum to appease semantics.

Quote from Sacrieur

Perhaps we can clear up this whole misunderstanding. The graphs I originally presented do not show "true" Christians, or the levels of people who practice Christianity, but rather the percentage of the population who identify themselves as Christian. I feel that it is within my right to say, then, that I poke fun at those who identify themselves as Christian. It should be a sufficient answer for the question as to why Christianity is poked fun of the most: it is because some 76% of the American population (or something) identify themselves as being Christian. And by and by, most denominations use the same bible, but different interpretations.

My claiming that the story of creation done in six literal days being silly does not apply to those Christians (or who identify as such) who do not believe that this is true. It isn't so much as targeting Christianity as a whole, since that is impossible, but instead targeting those who follow a specific belief. In fact, making the jump into saying that I am attacking Christianity as a whole after I attack the creation story is a strange jump in logic. I am attacking a singular belief among many that identify themselves as Christian beliefs. From this, I do not believe I could possibly attack all of Christianity, or even want to.

Additionally, practicing Christianity and believing Christianity are not mutually inclusive. And from the graphs I presented we can infer that a very large percent of the population believe in Christianity.