I agree with you... I'm pretty sure that map editing wasn't let down, You don't really go in depth about what you think about the map editing or the campaign. At any rate i think that blizzard did a great job on the everything.

Unreal expectations != expecting the same level of effort put into community tools and services 10 years ago.

You won't find someone who hates sc2 and Blizzard more than me. Come at me bro.

Then stop playing Blizzard games, going on Starcraft websites, etc. Bitching about it is annoying. You think you're improving something by whining? SCII is a product. Don't like it, don't buy it.

Successful troll is successful. u mad?

Let's never criticize poorly rushed products so the industry keeps improving, yes?

Wouldn't it be trolling if you didn't actually feel that way, since it seems like you're stating that you hate SC2 because you hate SC2 rather than to incite Cent? And "rushed" and "Blizzard games" don't really go hand in hand to me.

I think that Blizzard announced the game way too early, which put a hell of a lot of pressure on them to get the game out. I can see how it can be considered as rushed.

My stance on sc2 is pretty much common knowledge, but I'm willing to give it a chance over a period of time. I find it more amusing that there's this massive amount of pent-up rage in this thread versus people critisizing SC2. Chances are if I went on about the things I am most unhappy with, most of you wouldn't even understand the subject material. Occlusion culling. Pathing CPU overhead. Products of an extremely dated engine design. Products of an extremely poor mindset towards custom content in general.

Sc2 is definitely rushed. One look at the writing/voice acting in the campaign is all the casual observer needs to see that.

The only reason why I question the idea of it being rushed is because Blizzard is notorious for their "we'll release it when it is done" motto. The game was also in development for years and years before it was announced. Perhaps they announced it early, sure, but we certainly played the waiting game when it came to finding out when the game would actually be released.

Supposedly SC2 was in development immediately after TFT. Yet the production quality of sc2 is significantly lower. The only thing that indicates to me a lengthy production life is how outdated and badly optimized the engine is. Lots of companies say "it's done when it's done". Don't ever believe that. There is always a deadline.

In this case, I have friends who work at Blizzard who have told me the "it's done when it's done" thing is pretty firm there (mostly because once they meet deadlines, they will redo things anyway). As far as I know, once they set a release date, that's the deadline they have to follow completely.

From what I hear instead of pushing dates they just force staff to work longer hours. Unfortunately, while this may result in increased productivity, the exhaustion doesn't make for tidy work.

To add to the "being rushed" argument

simply look at the huge amount of bug fixes and extra things they're putting in the new patches.

Of course, the first thing you'd say is that "Patches always occur and bugs happen all the time".
The answer lies in the SCIIEditor section of the patch.
There are fixes in there that should've been fixed from the beginning.
Since the editor probably isn't the most important part of the game's release, it makes sense for them to rush it out..

But, look at the bug fixes section.
These changes all seem like very obvious ones that should've been caught and fixed if they haven't rushed the game.

Only 2 of those are bugs, though. The rest just seem like aesthetic changes.

It's true, these things could have done before the game was released. But frankly I'm glad it came out when it did. Really, they're quite minor things, and there comes a point with all software where you have to balance between what you "could do" and what you "have done" and when it is ready to ship. We do it all the time at my work.

At what point does having a lower priority for something become "rushing it" ? They spent less time on the editor and are thus making improvements on it after release. If you expected them to delay SC2 as a worldwide explosion with multiple $100,000+ leagues and dozens of huge-name sponsors to please a few hundred mapmakers, you're clueless.

I like how you jumped from "rushing the editor" to "rushing the game." Good try? They spent like 3 months with a playable beta just to balance melee before releasing the game. If those "obvious bugs" were a major issue, they would have been squashed then. They're not. The new Custom Games UI is excellent and their improvements bring it at least in line with SC1's ease of use. Considering the complete lack of complaints about pretty much everything but balance from the melee scene, at some point you just have to acknowledge that custom game players are a minority and the amount of work they've put towards our rather unprofitable aspect of their game is incredible. It goes far beyond what any other developer has done.

Er... according to who? The campaign, UI, optimization capabilities, matchmaking, multiplayer, and custom games are all far beyond anything TFT did.

The optimization is better than TFT? [I disagree]

Also - Epic, BioWare.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Mar 25 2011, 8:02 pm by NudeRaider. Reason: more factualy discussion please

Understatment of the year!!

But of course we realize the custom gaming scene is a minority. It doesn't mean we have to accept the fact that they ignored what worked in SC1.

The campaign wasn't bad. It just wasn't much better. Having to keep playing Terran made it repetitive. Also the fact that the strategy and balance would differ between melee and campaign made campaign feel irrelevant.

Chatting in lobby is enabled now. I like how there are no bots and trolls, for most part.

Custom maps are more accessible as well.

I still don't get how to work the galaxy editor, but I am sure blizzard will produce more tutorials eventually.

If there is one thing to complain about it's that the gameplay isn't sticky like sc1.

There is just less to micro, since many things are automated, and 3D units are harder to control than sprites because they end up looking like blobs when grouped.

A good analogy would be sc2 = spray painting sc1 = pencil

There's no trolls? Damnit, I need to get on that right away.

SC2's editor is not really "hard". It's just massively inefficient, laid out terribly, and is missing a lot of functions available to the XML files. While I expect functionality to improve over time, a layout overhaul is extremely unlikely.

I don't get how things being 3d are "harder to micro".

the difference is similar to clicking a desktop icon (sprite) vs. high-rise building in simcity that stacks over one another in angled view