Staredit Network > Forums > Lite Discussion > Topic: What is wise
What is wise
Dec 13 2010, 4:52 pm
By: NudeRaider  

Dec 13 2010, 4:52 pm NudeRaider Post #1

We can't explain the universe, just describe it; and we don't know whether our theories are true, we just know they're not wrong. >Harald Lesch

I am basing that topic on this statement and the small discussion that erupted from it because I was curious how there could be such extremely diverse opinions on that matter.

So I'm both interested in the actual meaning of wise (which was an easy task of googling):
Quote from wise">http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Wise]wise 1 (wz); adj. wis·er, wis·est
1. Having the ability to discern or judge what is true, right, or lasting; sagacious: a wise leader.
2.
a. Exhibiting common sense; prudent: a wise decision.
b. Shrewd; crafty.
3. Having great learning; erudite.
4. Provided with information; informed. Used with to: was wise to the politics of the department.

and of how wise is actually used in spoken language, as the definitions from the dictionary page are strongly varying in meaning. (Kinda my main interest)



Objective/General part ends here, now my personal view on the matter:

2a (marked in red) is my understanding of wise and probably the same for Kame and Doodan, judging from their responses.
However I can see how payne could take the other definitions and identify himself with it:
1. Of course he's sure all his decisions are right. Who isn't?
2b. payne has ideas, so he could be considered crafty
3. & 4. (where's the difference?) Relative to his age this may be true. So should we call him a wise teenager or can wise only be applied on an absolute scale?

So I think I asked enough questions/gave opinions to start this topic. Now it's your turn SEN, discuss away.




Dec 13 2010, 5:06 pm Vrael Post #2



I think much of payne's word choice may have to do with the fact he isn't a native english speaker, and he did not necessarily mean wise in that discussion.

Personally I think wisdom pertains to the knowledge a person has about living a particular fulfilling way of life, specifically in having the foresight to avoid problems, whether it be based on experience or thought, and in pursuing those things which bring happiness. Unfortunately, I don't think we can fully discuss or agree on the meaning of wise here, since as soon as I say anything about a "purpose" or "meaning" or anything along those lines pertaining to life, the opposing side who believes life is inherently meaningless will pop up and shoot everything down, and I think the nature of wisdom is inherently tied to the worldview that assumes life can be meaningful and fulfilling, and that certain petty things just aren't worth fighting over.

Essentially, I generally use definition 1 from the quote above when I think of wisdom.



None.

Dec 13 2010, 5:18 pm Centreri Post #3

Relatively ancient and inactive

WHAT IS WISE? BABY DON'T HURT ME. DON'T HURT ME. NO MOAR.

Aaaaand I completely agree with Vrael. I think Payne was unnecessarily insulted because he's a French-Canadian and didn't know the right word to use, and most people generally consider "Wise" to mean the first definition. "Wise" isn't considered a common trait, and is usually reserved for... well, not Payne.

"Of course he's sure all his decisions are right. Who isn't?" <--- Sounds like you're saying that everyone is wise.



None.

Dec 13 2010, 5:34 pm JaFF Post #4



I think it's a combination of practical thinking (common sense) and life experience. Common sense alone isn't enough.



None.

Dec 13 2010, 7:06 pm Fire_Kame Post #5

a left leaning coexistence nut

Quote from NudeRaider
1. Of course he's sure all his decisions are right. Who isn't?
Um, me...I find it incredibly short sighted to believe all the choices I'm making are correct ones. But sometimes if you get caught up in what is the correct one, especially in a situation where there is no definitive correct path, you just waste time and prolong the inevitable. I think the defining phrase that makes me believe that Payne is not wise was when he said in so many words he would not give to a better point of view, even if it is correct and he is wrong:
Quote from payne
Nope, I keep thinking the same way.
Also, why are you taking anything I say seriously? Dude, why is it that something I said started this topic?

Quote from Vrael
I think much of payne's word choice may have to do with the fact he isn't a native english speaker, and he did not necessarily mean wise in that discussion
I'll concede to that.




Dec 13 2010, 10:01 pm poison_us Post #6

Back* from the grave

Not claiming to know more than one knows. I roll old school.




Dec 14 2010, 12:24 am Moose Post #7



Quote from Player's Handbook
INTELLIGENCE, WISDOM, AND CHARISMA
You can use your character’s Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores to guide you in roleplaying your character. Here is some background (just guidelines) about what these scores can mean.

A smart character (one with high Intelligence) is curious, knowledge-able, and prone to using big words. A character with a high Intelligence but low Wisdom may be smart but absentminded, or knowledgeable but lacking in common sense. A character with a high Intelligence but a low Charisma may be a know-it-all or a reclusive scholar. A smart character lacking in both Wisdom and Charisma may put her foot in her mouth often.

A character with a low Intelligence mispronounces and misuses words, has trouble following directions, or fails to get the joke.

A character with a high Wisdom score may be sensible, serene, “in tune,” alert, or centered. A character with a high Wisdom but low Intelligence may be aware, but simple. A character with high Wisdom but low Charisma knows enough to speak carefully and may become an advisor (or “power behind the throne”) rather than a leader. The wise character lacking in both Intelligence and Charisma is uncouth and unsophisticated.

A character with a low Wisdom score may be rash, imprudent, irresponsible, or “out of it.”

A character with high Charisma may be attractive, striking, personable, and confident. A character with high Charisma but a low Intelligence can usually pass herself off as knowledgeable, until she meets a true expert. A charismatic character lacking in both Intelligence and Wisdom is likely to be shallow and unaware of others’ feelings.

A character with low Charisma may be reserved, gruff, rude, fawning, or simply nondescript.





Dec 14 2010, 1:43 am NudeRaider Post #8

We can't explain the universe, just describe it; and we don't know whether our theories are true, we just know they're not wrong. >Harald Lesch

Quote from Centreri
"Of course he's sure all his decisions are right. Who isn't?" <--- Sounds like you're saying that everyone is wise.
Sounds like you fell for my little trap. :)
Thing is, people who are not wise enough to realize that they were wrong may think that. And people who actually are wise generally make the right decisions. (of course not always)

Quote from Fire_Kame
Also, why are you taking anything I say seriously? Dude, why is it that something I said started this topic?
Because, intentionally or not, you had the right idea with your protip.

Quote from Vrael
I think much of payne's word choice may have to do with the fact he isn't a native english speaker, and he did not necessarily mean wise in that discussion
Yeah I was thinking the same thing, but decided to look into it further, especially since I'm also not a native speaker.

And :lol: at Moose.




Dec 14 2010, 2:45 am Symmetry Post #9

Dungeon Master

Quote from JaFF
I think it's a combination of practical thinking (common sense) and life experience. Common sense alone isn't enough.

I like this interpretation - and I'd like to put emphasis on the 'life experience' part. I feel that wisdom comes from one's ability to utilize lessons learned through experience, rather than knowledge (with the other being intelligence, in a sense). The line is fine, but definitely there.

It's often said that wisdom comes with age; but really it should come with experience which is only partly linked to age.

Look at a typical example of a 'wise' person - the elder of a native tribe. His experiences in every facet of life - love, loss, etc - teach him everything he needs to lead his people in their environment.

I'm having trouble putting words together, though my thoughts on this seem deep. Perhaps someone else can do better.



:voy: :jaff: :voy: :jaff:

Dec 14 2010, 3:49 am Centreri Post #10

Relatively ancient and inactive

Quote from NudeRaider
Sounds like you fell for my little trap.
Thing is, people who are not wise enough to realize that they were wrong may think that. And people who actually are wise generally make the right decisions. (of course not always)
... But if you knew that, then you also know that what you said does in no way support Payne being wise by the first definition...



None.

Dec 14 2010, 5:21 am Decency Post #11



The Socratic expression is pretty concise:

I appear to be wiser than he, because I do not fancy I know what I do not know.



None.

Dec 14 2010, 4:16 pm poison_us Post #12

Back* from the grave

Quote from poison_us
Not claiming to know more than one knows. I roll old school.
Quote from name:FaZ-
The Socratic expression is pretty concise:

I appear to be wiser than he, because I do not fancy I know what I do not know.
Ohai.





Dec 14 2010, 5:13 pm Decency Post #13



Control F'ed for the quote, didn't see it. Don't paraphrase poets, please. =o



None.

Dec 15 2010, 1:53 am BeDazed Post #14



Wise men don't think of themselves as wise.
Therefore, I say.. I'm wise. It's not what I think, it's a fact.



None.

Dec 15 2010, 1:57 am dumbducky Post #15



Quote from name:FaZ-
Control F'ed for the quote, didn't see it. Don't paraphrase poets, please. =o
Socrates isn't a poet.



tits

Dec 15 2010, 9:50 pm Decency Post #16



Philosopher, then. Don't paraphrase either. =p



None.

Dec 16 2010, 12:52 am Roy Post #17

An artist's depiction of an Extended Unit Death

Quote from NudeRaider
1. Of course he's sure all his decisions are right. Who isn't?
Sounds like ignorance.

The conversation from that topic seemed to evolve from Kame's claim that modesty has something to do with being wise, to which I fail to draw a distinct connection. Being wise is essentially having the ability to make a greater decision, at least in my understanding of the word.

Oh, and for kicks:






Dec 16 2010, 1:17 am BeDazed Post #18



There is a distinct paradox here though.
If you truly are modest, then you would thinkwise. You are modest. You cannot lie because you're modest, therefore you must say you're modest.
If you are not modest, then you should say you're modest. Because you are not modest, you must be not modest about things- thus you must say you're modest.
And with that, saying 'no' makes you automatically not modest.
Because if you were modest, and said 'no' to this question- then with this question, you have become not modest.
And if you were not modest, but said 'no' to this question, then with this question, you have become modest.

Of course, the correct answer in most cases should be 'I don't know. It's usually not I who judge myself, but others.'
But in something like a entrance test to some big company, then you should definitely say you're modest for several several good reasons.
They don't really care about the fact that you're not modest, but your ability to be self-confident and frank.



None.

Dec 16 2010, 2:09 am payne Post #19

:payne:

Modesty is for weaks, period.
Where can it bring humanity? >_>



None.

Dec 16 2010, 2:17 am Sand Wraith Post #20

she/her

Quote from payne
Modesty is for weaks, period.
Where can it bring humanity? >_>

Funny that you mention that, because it's the lack of it that prevents communism/socialism/whatever-you-preach from working well.

Capitalism, ho!




Options
  Back to forum
Please log in to reply to this topic or to report it.
Members in this topic: None.
[06:30 am]
Ultraviolet -- :lol:
[03:35 am]
jjf28 -- easy not necessarily the word I'd use, but should be doable
[05:43 pm]
Zoan -- NudeRaider
NudeRaider shouted: Zoan yes you can.
oh, yeah you’re right. Then yeah if you use an ai script it should be easy to farm unfinished buildings in some unused area on the map and just move them around, right?
[2019-10-17. : 6:06 am]
NudeRaider -- KrayZee
KrayZee shouted: Voyager7456 Somehow I misread your shout. "Glad I can entertain you in Nude" as if you sent a racy photo, video or something.
nah, he just made a comment that had us laughing very hard.
[2019-10-17. : 6:02 am]
NudeRaider -- Zoan
Zoan shouted: sraw531 you can’t move buildings afaik
yes you can.
[2019-10-16. : 10:03 pm]
Dem0n -- no
[2019-10-16. : 8:26 pm]
GGmano -- Is here a forum only for temple siege?
[2019-10-16. : 4:20 pm]
KrayZee -- Voyager7456
Voyager7456 shouted: Glad I can entertain you Nude
Somehow I misread your shout. "Glad I can entertain you in Nude" as if you sent a racy photo, video or something.
[2019-10-16. : 2:26 pm]
martosss -- Moose
Moose shouted: martosss IIRC, the plan was to go 64-bit only eventually so they're interested in differences between the versions
well I might have found 1 bug for them to fix - some maps load on 32 bit, but not on 64 bit game version
[2019-10-16. : 2:19 pm]
Zoan -- sraw531
sraw531 shouted: I'm pretty sure you would move the building away at some point. When you do so, you can give it to someone else. I was thinking nexi because its possible you could encourage the computer to expand to a specific spot
you can’t move buildings afaik
Please log in to shout.


Members Online: Roy