Oxford and Cambridge are the two oldest universities in the world. Britain holds 7 of the oldest universities in the world (I think). Most university league tables - which take into account factors such as: teaching satisfaction, feedback satisfaction, facilities provided, budget spent per student capita, the student to staff ratio, computers provided per student, average computer specifications, employability of future graduates...

Most league tables only compare universities in a given country, but there are a few which do global comparisons. I have seen two of such global ones years ago... one in a newspaper and another online. They both put Oxford and Cambridge above Harvard and Yale. However, since you can't really compare 'my university is better than your university' - the methodology the research is carried out plays a big part in determining the ranking of these universities... But, in general, both Oxford and Cambridge are understood to be the oldest and most respected higher education institutes in the world.


Europeans are not spoiled. They have to pay extortionate amounts of money to study in a British university. We British people are not spoiled, because our taxes are so high and they do not even begin to reflect the general quality of life we are forced to live in (health care, education, policing etc...)


You are the World Police though, right?

A degree from Harvard is the most expensive and useless piece of paper most people will ever get. It comes with such a heavy price I would think only academics would go after it, as really nothing would ever pay back the debt burden that comes with it. Not to mention, it may open the doors to high paying jobs - if they exist - but it closes a lot of lower paying jobs that you may need to cushion the time.

Also, that is really awesome that you have loan payments paid directly out of your salary as tax. I don't think I get the same benefit. The tax placed on the loan is tax deductible (up to a point), but it is different. However, there is a way to have loans forgiven by doing time with Americorps or similar projects linked to the government, but few students choose to go that way. I am considering it, if I can fit in to one of their programs. They pay a stipend (a low one, but hey! They also are forgiving debt!), so it may be practical to do it first.


Fuck ya!

+

Boy, the irony is so thick, you can cut it with a knife. The lack of modesty doesn't help either.

---

The third video demonstrates a lot of anger and frustration, and it is easy to misinterpret a lot of things due to these emotionally charged video (I'd be pissed off too if sm1 took my wallet. but why the hell would she have her wallet in her hand, anyway?)

Over here in BC Canada, a new tax, called the Harmonized Sales Tax, or HST, has been recently introduced to our systems. What it does is that it makes daily need items, such as food and clothing, which used to only have a 7% tax, now have a 12% tax. It is a pretty big tax increase, and people are pissed off.

So what happened? A petition happened, enough people signed so the ruling states that there must be a re-vote of the tax. Gordon Campbell, our premier, resigned his job... and now, a former premier is pushing to make the re-vote of the tax earlier (it is scheduled to be Oct of next year.. so we still have to pay a full year of extra taxes).

Compared to the videos I saw above (which may just be the worst out of many peaceful protests), ours semi-win was much more peaceful. I wonder if something what I just described could be an alternative?

(Note that there were protests here also... lots of them... but fairly peaceful ones..)

I generally think most such rankings are crappy. My most obvious and infuriating (for me) example is the ranking of Russian universities; in programming, in math, Russia's students consistently overshadow everyone except the Chinese and occasionally Americans on international tests (like the IBM ACM Programming test). However, the highest I've seen a Russian University on an international ranking is ~#60, for MSU. At 60, it's competing with mid-tier British and American universities. Big, fat bullshit.

Yeah. We're the world police and are technologically ahead in almost every field. It amazes me, really, what America does.

I was under the impression that Harvard cost ~$50,000/year, which compares fairly well with you paying $33,000 a year for your stint in private universities. And... yes, a Harvard degree is very prestigious, it greatly helps in getting a job, and I really don't see how it closes off any lower-paying jobss.

Explayne.

Also, it's easy to say "Yeah, the people want it, let's do it and leave the debt for another time. They'll re-elect me!". It's more difficult to say "Yes, they want it, and even though it'll hurt my political standing, we have to impose these taxes to keep us out of a debt spiral".

According to the website, it is close to 60k a year. I guess if you don't mind paying 240k for a four year education...and of course, all four year universities I have seen or attended increase cost the further along you go, once you get into upper division.

And it does close off jobs. You become overqualified for lower positions, and especially now in a recession it is incredibly hard for a small computer resale business, say, to justify paying extra for a Harvard grad, even if the different between hiring the grad and someone from a lower school is a few k a year (and drastically under what the Harvard grad might earn else where).

Ivy league schools are adopting the policy that anyone who attends their university with a family income of less than $200,000 per year will have free tuition. If your family makes >$200,000 per year, chances are you don't need help paying for college anyway.

At least, a year or two I read a news article saying that this would be the case. Maybe it didn't go through.

Edit:
I guess this is what actually happened:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/10/harvard-to-offer-40-tuiti_n_76110.html

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Nov 29 2010, 5:24 am by Vrael.

Kame, why can't the Harvard grad say... "It's alright, doods, I'll work for the same cash you'll give random noob off the street".

And, yeah, they typically give financial aid.

Vrael, I believe I heard that tuition is also free for those with a family income below $60,000 or something like that. Your first one seemed a bit too good to be true, but education SHOULD, theoretically, be open for the best students no matter what their financial status is. EDIT: Oh, it actually says the figure I just quoted in the article. Niiice.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Nov 29 2010, 5:31 am by Centreri.

They do, and then they can't pay off their loans.

I've submitted a question to the education minister in the UK, because he's going to be answering some questions to students later this evening.

If you're interested, the questions I've put to him are here: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1477793

... You can do that?

Awesome.

Yeah, I've been a member of that forum for about as long as I've been a member of SEN. It's been getting bigger and bigger lately - it had Q&A sessions with all the party leaders during the election and its ambition seems to know no bounds.

That's pretty awesome he took the time to look at questions, but did he ever answer yours?

(and on a related note, I was actually going to post a topic similar to this last night but figured no one would want to discuss it.)

Pretty amazing that some countries actually have governments that respond to the public, eh? Actually, it's amazing how badly the American government serves its people.

Our PM (who I don't think much of at all) had a 45 minute live chat on a popular news website today. Apparently he doesn't read books, but watches Desperate Housewives and Grey's Anatomy.

No he didn't answer mine. Because I asked mine first and it didn't get bumped, it ended up way down the list.

I won't pretend to understand exactly the situation in the UK, but it seems to me that the government shouldn't be paying students anything/lowering their costs for their education at all. It seems reasonable that the students have to pay for their education themselves, without the government paying anything. As for people getting angry about having their benefits removed, it was a gift. If they get a gift removed, they shouldn't complain, as it isn't a right or something they deserve. Also, why should other people be taxed for the education of others? Ideally, the lowered taxes would mean that students and parents would be better able to pay for their education, keeping the government out of the loop entirely.

You're dipping a little bit into the purpose of government here, but as far as that topic relates to higher education costs, I'd say a more educated population is certainly a worthy endeavour and a good use of government funds. I think that education is well established worldwide as a purpose of government, but whether that extends beyond the basic high school diploma into the realm of college and degrees I suppose is debatable. If the government can help people with their college educations which in turn makes a more productive, dynamic, and capable work force, that would certainly benefit the entire country, and apparently justifies the use of the tax dollars.

That greatly favors rich families and stops those from poor families from attending college, keeping the family poor forever. Subsidized education is one of the most important factors in class mobility.

With the internet, I don't think poor-ness is really a factor in how much money you can earn or how educated you can become. Even without the internet, many uneducated people in the past became highly educated without attending a professional educational institution, e.g. high school or college. Anyway, with private universities available, richer families get benefited from better education anyway.

... Yes, but it doesn't keep the poor out of the loop. It gives everyone opportunity. I don't know how the internet factors on here. Are also you opposed to public K-12 education?

I'm not going to argue about this. If you don't know why education is subsidized after I spelled it out, lol.

Just going to give a blanket response to all the topics since Jack butted in.

We have a welfare state in Britain. We pay what is called National Insurance, and it varies between £24 a month to 25% of your total salary (depending on your earnings). This money is something that everyone simply has to pay, on top of all their other taxes, bills, expenses etc. This money goes towards people who are on 'the dole'. 'The Dole' is basically when the government gives you lump sums each week or fortnight, because you can prove yourself to be incapable of getting a job.

So, in plain English: the lazy dregs of society all feign some sort of physical injury (back problem, slipped disk, damaged knee cartilage), or some mental problem (depression, is the most common, among others), and they plead their case to social workers. They then do no work, and live off the earnings of others.

There has been major attempts to tackle the number of fraudulent abusers of the system - ie. people with absolutely nothing wrong with them, who decide to sign on anyways... But these attempts have been largely unsuccessful.

Another issue is the housing situation. There are vast swaths of 'Council Houses' which are the lowest quality housing across Great Britain. Anyone, by right, has the right to a council house if they do not have accomodation. There is an insane waiting list of people to get into the council houses, since the property ladder is so expensive to get on to. But, common practice amongst these dregs of society is to simply find a girl, get her pregnant, and re-apply for housing. Once your 'situation' is taken into account you get moved up the priority list and straight into a house, with a hefty government funded check to 'balance' your poor situation.

So, in general, when you say:

Rather pay for the education of others, than pay for the drugs and free living we currently provide to lots of ungrateful, lazy criminals.


Subsidized education and healthcare (although the healthcare has been diminishing in the past) were two of the greatest achievements of Great Britain in my opinion. However, over recent years we have been slipping into a state of welfare and 'equality', and now we move into that of an oppressed police state and surveillance.

The welfare version didn't work because the rich were always going to stay rich. And no matter how you change the taxes and economy, they would remain rich, because the rich have the power and the brains to be one step ahead of political movements. As such, tax increases and spending budgets have worst affected the poor.

The 'equality' version didn't work, because as soon as you give out 'free money' to people, they will begin to abuse it and laugh in your face.

The police-state, which is probably a very harsh term, is what we are sliding into now. The footage in the OP shows clearly the anger and hatred that many feel. Sure, it is only a handful of miscreants who cause a peacful protest to turn violent. But, "he who watches evil occur, and does nothing; is as bad as he who commits the evil in the first place" (or something like that LOL!)

Anyways, in other news. Vince Cable (business secretary) has urged both sides of our coalition government to at the very least wait before education cuts are put into place. He made quite a nice speech about how democracy has failed if parties can be elected on false promises. But, the media (ho ho ho) gave it very little coverage at all. Here's tom with the weather.