Staredit Network > Forums > SC2 Assistance > Topic: A lot of Newbie Questions
A lot of Newbie Questions
Nov 19 2010, 12:49 am
By: UnholyUrine  

Nov 19 2010, 12:49 am UnholyUrine Post #1



Hi Folks

So I've recently got an up-to-date laptop and I finally feel really encouraged to make an SC2map.. despite all the shit that blizz.. ah w/e.

So I have a few questions (some were answered by the Wiki. Nice :D)
note that I'm asking these without any experience D:

1. What does "Create Persistent" do?
2. How can I make a homing missile act like the Ultralisk in Raynor's Party?
i.e. the way the Ultralisk moves. How can you make it so that, if it is moving very fast in one direction, let's say north, and your foe side-steps to avoid it, then the missile will have to take a wide curve to turn back to try to hit the opponent?
3. How do I make a projectile act like the Enforcer's Grenade from FAC (now named Metal, Bile, Tooth and Fire.. unfortunately) where it goes to the location, and fires projectiles in a circle, clockwise, around it?
4. What's the general way for making effects that isn't the same as, for example, the missile... Like if I wanted the Viking's rockets to hit an enemy and produce a EMP affect. (maybe i'm just really noob..)

D: thanks



None.

Nov 19 2010, 1:08 am NicholasBeige Post #2



Quote from UnholyUrine
Hi Folks

So I've recently got an up-to-date laptop and I finally feel really encouraged to make an SC2map.. despite all the shit that blizz.. ah w/e.

So I have a few questions (some were answered by the Wiki. Nice :D)
note that I'm asking these without any experience D:

1. What does "Create Persistent" do?
2. How can I make a homing missile act like the Ultralisk in Raynor's Party?
i.e. the way the Ultralisk moves. How can you make it so that, if it is moving very fast in one direction, let's say north, and your foe side-steps to avoid it, then the missile will have to take a wide curve to turn back to try to hit the opponent?
3. How do I make a projectile act like the Enforcer's Grenade from FAC (now named Metal, Bile, Tooth and Fire.. unfortunately) where it goes to the location, and fires projectiles in a circle, clockwise, around it?
4. What's the general way for making effects that isn't the same as, for example, the missile... Like if I wanted the Viking's rockets to hit an enemy and produce a EMP affect. (maybe i'm just really noob..)

D: thanks


Okay, here goes...

Create Persistent: It basically creates an effect, which happens repeatedly. Think of it as a Periodic trigger event. It's varied uses range from:
  • High Templar - Psi Storm: It causes damage to be done periodically to units inside the Search Area.
  • Missile Turret - Longbolt Missile: Actually causes the unit's weapon to fire 2 missiles, through the Persistent (x2) Launch Missile effect.

Okay so it's late, and I can't think of more examples. A Create Persistent is simply an effect that happens persistently, ie, repeatedly. You'd want to use a Create Persistent and a Search Area effect which Apply's a Behaviour to create an Aura. Sounds complicated but it really is quite simple.

A good bit of practice (I HIGHLY RECCOMEND THIS) if you are wanting to get into the Data Editor is this: USE the EDITOR - PREFIX and EDITOR - SUFFIX fields... It is very easy to start getting confused between what objects do what, and what objects they link to. The way that Blizzard do it is the Prefix is the Name of the unit which the object applies to. And the Suffix is the type of object that it is. So, for example: A Marauder's Punisher Grenade Weapon, is called 'Marauder - Punisher Grenade'. Since it is the only weapon of this type, it has no Suffix. But the Effects used by the weapon (a Launch Missile and a Set containing the Damage and the Apply Behavior - for slow) are all suffixed with (Launch Missile), (Set), (Damage) and (Apply Behaviour). It really is just very good practice to get into doing this.

On to your next questions... I have never played Raynor's Party. The EU mapping scene is pretty dire. But I THINK that what you want to edit is either:
  • a) The MOVER for the unit. This is a special data object which applies how units move around the map, specificall missiles. Almost all units use the Ground mover. So you'd want to create your own custom mover. Try looking on the Wiki for a link to ProzaicMuzes 'Mover' tutorial. It is quite comprehensive, but covers mostly missiles.
  • b) Alternatively (and more likely) I think you can achieve this through editing some of the Movement - Fields on the Unit object. There should be something to do with Turning Rate etc... I really am not sure.. However, for a point of reference: there is a unit in the Campaign dependency (it's a Battlecruiser which has been shot down... cant think of its name, again, it is late) but it moves similarly to how you require. Look for it.

Okay, again haven't played this FAC map. But it seems like a few effects were used for this. To keep it short: The Impact Effect, of the first missile spawns more Launch Missile effects. Then it's just a case of creating custom movers to make the missiles work like you want them to. Again, I havn't seen this map so I am going by your description, can't be of much more use than this. Look for ProzaicMuzes mover tutorial.

Finally. Really sorry for this wall of text, my fingers go ape-shit after I drink coffee. Really can't help it. Okay, final question: It's the Impact Effect of the Launch Missile you want to change. Use a Set effect (which is basically a folder or group of effects) to make the missile do multiple things. The example I gave of this is the Marauder which does Damage as well as Slow (if upgraded).

But yeah, any other questions just fire me a PM. Or post here... hope the Wiki helps you out!

Edit: Shit - I really need to get some decaffinated coffee or something... sorry :awesome:



None.

Nov 19 2010, 1:17 am UnholyUrine Post #3



That was awesome. thanks very much.. I'll see what I can do :D



None.

Nov 19 2010, 1:19 am NicholasBeige Post #4



gl hf :)...



None.

Nov 19 2010, 1:27 am UnholyUrine Post #5



Some more questions.

5. Anyway to make areas or regions of map unflyable (as in air units cannot go in)? .. don't care about ground units...
6. Is there anyway to detect an air unit "colliding" with a higher ground area... and then probably forcing it back a little?
7. How does the pushing/forcing/jumping work?

If you have played Swarm vs. Survivor aka Left 2 Die aka Left 4 Death ... or if you've played Swarmed Heroes.. it is possible to push units away with an ability. HOw does that work? What about the jet packs and lunging... having a unit flyjump around the map? Something to do with reaper's ability I presume.
8. Anyway to push units in a certain direction? More importantly, anyway to push units in the same direction that another unit is "charging" at it, or casted an ability at it?
9. In Swarmed Heroes, payne put a notification on the heroes that are about to die.. He took the pings from the minimap and put it on the heroes' heads. How does that work?




None.

Nov 19 2010, 1:47 am NicholasBeige Post #6



5. You'll need to use No Fly Zones. They are a pathing object or a doodad. Not entirely sure. Blizzard admitted in a round of their blueposts (and at BlizzCon) that the Flying Pathing is quite poorly implemented (read: shit) for the time being. They will 'look into implementing this in a future patch'... So, maybe never.

They say that No Fly Zones were designed to stop flying units from 'clipping through' really tall doodads. But I suppose you could use them for what you want.

6. I'd imagine, either through No Fly Zones or a region. Create a region (or a number of regions) on the High Ground area. You can select numerous regions you have drawn, and hit Numpad 0 to 'merge' them. Then just use a trigger like "Unit Enters Region > Unit = Flying > Order Unit to Move elsewhere".

I'd imagine No Fly Zones are your friends here.

7. Something I do not really know. Read this tutorial I personally hate this guys style of a 'tutorial'. But you might learn how they work from there. Well, you're more likely (100% in fact) to learn it there than from me.

8. See point 7. Maybe a combination of Triggers and Data Editor. You can Apply Behaviour to a unit through triggers. Not sure though.

9. Oh did he now? He just attached a model to a unit through triggers. I think the Model is part of the Campaign dependency. Look at the third (i think) Terran campaign map (where you have to protect the 1st artifact piece. The map creates a bunch of these 'minimap ping models' and attached them to the Bunkers telling you to put your Marines in them.

edit: IIRC - the model Payne used is different. Just look at his map. duh. Hint: It's hiding in his triggers somewhere. Since he can't do no data editting :P



None.

Nov 19 2010, 2:54 am payne Post #7

:payne:

Quote from UnholyUrine
9. In Swarmed Heroes, payne put a notification on the heroes that are about to die.. He took the pings from the minimap and put it on the heroes' heads. How does that work?[/b]
Learn to read Crew encases: Temp did everything that is related to the spells. I'm only the Trigger man. :P



None.

Nov 19 2010, 3:20 am DevliN Post #8

OVERWATCH STATUS GO

One thing to note as you start making abilities is that pretty much every ability consists of linear effects that trigger in order. For example, you have an Ability that when used triggers an Effect. That Effect may create periodic damage, so it then triggers a Damage effect multiple times. It can also be much more complicated than that, but at the core every ability is like that, so you generally need to work backwards to construct an ability from the finishing point to the beginning.

7. This is actually 2 separate questions, so I'll use (A) and (B) to differentiate.
7A. (Pushing enemy units) It's actually pretty easy to accomplish with a series of effects. Like I said above, you would start with the finisher first, so you would need:
  • Effect - Apply Force. This effect with move units away or toward the caster based on the value of "Effect - Amount." If the value is negative, it pulls units toward the center, and if it is positive it will push units away from the center. You would also need to change the "Effect - Mass Fraction" amount to account for larger or smaller units.
  • Effect - Search Area. This effect will create the radius for the pushing ability. By modifying "Search - Areas+," you can set the push to affect all surrounding units withing a certain radius, or even only a certain amount of units in front of the casting unit. It is here that you would also apply the "Apply Force" effect to the "Search - Area."
  • Effect - Damage. This manages the amount of damage the ability should do by changing the "Combat - Amount." Also you would change the Search - Area+" if you want to change the damage radius around (i.e. if you want closer units within a radius of 2 to take 100% damage, but units further away in radius 3 to take 50% and so on). Note that the "Arc" for this should be the same as the "Arc" set in the prior "Search Area" Effect.
  • Effect - Search Area (this one deals with the damage while the previous one dealt with the applied force). Basically this is similar to the Damage Effect in that you modify the "Search - Area" except you want the radius of this Effect to be the maximum radius set by the damage. For example, if your damage effects a radius of 2, and then radius 3 (at 50% damage), then this value needs to be set as 3. Also in "Search - Area+" make sure the effect is set to the "Effect - Damage" that you just made.
  • Effect - Create Persistent. This one will control the other Effects and create the chain. The "Effect - Initial" will be set to the "Search Area (Damage)" Effect. This means that as soon as the ability is used, damage is done to the area. Then, you would need to change "Period Effects" to the "Search Area (Apply Force)" Effect, set the "Period Count" to something like 10, and then "Period Durations" to 0.1. This means that every .1 second the "Apply Force" Effect will push enemies away until it is done 10 times. You could also increase the Count to 100 and Durations to 0.01 if you wanted to.
  • Ability - Effect - Instant. This starts the effect, so you would link it to the "Create Persistent" to put everything in motion.
So to recap, your Ability will trigger the "Create Persistent" Effect.
The "Create Persistent" will trigger the "Search Area" for the Damage Effect and "Search Area" for the Apply Force Effect.
The "Search Area (Damage)" Effect will trigger the "Damage" effect to deal damage to the enemies.
The "Search Area (Apply Force)" Effect will trigger the "Apply Force" effect to push enemies away.

7B. (Jumping units). This one is tricky. If you just want to use the Data Editor, you basically make a copy of the unit as a missile actor. When the ability is used, the caster disappears, fires the "missile" version to the target area, and then the caster is transported to the target area and reappears. The "jump" effect is basically a manipulation of the missile's mover to make it a parabola. If you did it with Triggers, it's much easier apparently, though I don't exactly know how to do it since I'm not great with that part of the editor.



\:devlin\: Currently Working On: \:devlin\:
My Overwatch addiction.

Nov 19 2010, 7:14 pm Temp Post #9



Just as a note to the pushing units. Lifting the units before you push them makes the effect look better and can actually push them farther, I would say it is required for a push ability. To lift a unit you use the modify unit effect (and to lower it again afterwards).



None.

Nov 19 2010, 8:12 pm UnholyUrine Post #10



thnx. Looks like this will be a lot harder than I'd hoped

last question before i really start going in.. and probably the most stupid question
10. When I DL a map. where does it get saved actually? Is it possible thru b.net 2, or do I actually have to DL it from websites to open it on the editor?



None.

Nov 19 2010, 8:17 pm payne Post #11

:payne:

Quote from UnholyUrine
10. When I DL a map. where does it get saved actually? Is it possible thru b.net 2, or do I actually have to DL it from websites to open it on the editor?
When downloading a map from Battle.net 2.0, it gets stored into a cached temporary file and is thus inaccessible.
The only way to open maps is to open them from the Editor: Ctrl+O. From there, you're on the tab "Local Files", change to "Battle.net" and Voilą!
Only Unlocked maps are listed there, unfortunately.



None.

Nov 19 2010, 8:35 pm sraw531 Post #12



Quote from UnholyUrine
7. How does the pushing/forcing/jumping work?
8. Anyway to push units in a certain direction? More importantly, anyway to push units in the same direction that another unit is "charging" at it, or casted an ability at it?

I was wondering something similar.(Quote pointed at for similarity, not answering question. Possibly helpful information could result from my post) Is there a way to "Push" or "Teleport" a unit by adding a specific amount of distance in a particular direction?
IE. Say you have two halves of the map, split down the middle.
(Left, and Right)
Could you teleport a unit to the corresponding spot on the right side, simply by adding to its X coordinate location or some sort of coolness like that?
(Obviously target location could have unplacable issues, could it automatically place it at the closest pathable location on the opposite side?)



None.

Nov 19 2010, 9:04 pm Temp Post #13



It is pretty easy to teleport a unit relative to their current location with triggers. There is a move unit instantly action and you can get the unit's point by going under function and selecting position of unit. If you want to offset that point there is a function called Point with offset which lets you specify an offset by X and Y (there are also other offset functions that let you use other values).

Using the data editor you should be able to do it with a combination of a persistent effect (since it lets you specify offsets for target locations by X and Y) and a teleport effect.



None.

Nov 20 2010, 5:37 pm Biophysicist Post #14



I once did that accidentally. A Create Persistent has "Final Effect" and "Final Offset" or something like that. The Final Effect is triggered when the persistent is destroyed (or maybe only when it ends, I can't remember exactly), and the Final Offset determines where the Final Effect is triggered. Unlike the Periodic Offsets, though, it ignores the unit's heading. So, make a persistent that lasts a ridiculously short time with no periodic effects, call a teleport effect as the Final Effect, and put the Final Offset as (half of map size, 0), then copy it and change the final offset of the copy to (half of map size * -1, 0). Call the first effect to teleport the unit to the right-hand side and the copy to teleport it to the left hand side. (The easiest way to do this correctly would be an Effect - Instant ability, especially if you want the teleport player-controllable.)

(Yes, Temp did sort of say that, but he didn't go into much detail. One important thing he didn't mention is that the periodic offsets are relative to the heading but the final offset is not.)



None.

Nov 20 2010, 6:44 pm Temp Post #15



Quote from Biophysicist
One important thing he didn't mention is that the periodic offsets are relative to the heading but the final offset is not.)

Not just the final offset, all of them but the periodic ones :/



None.

Nov 20 2010, 7:17 pm payne Post #16

:payne:

Quote from Temp
Quote from Biophysicist
One important thing he didn't mention is that the periodic offsets are relative to the heading but the final offset is not.)

Not just the final offset, all of them but the periodic ones :/
Why don't you guys share your knowledge in the wiki? :awesome:
The Abilities/Effects wikis are part of the most important articles we need, yet they are still incomplete.
Not trying to force your hand on it, but it's like the third time I see the kind of explanation I'd see in the wiki itself. :/



None.

Nov 24 2010, 7:25 am UnholyUrine Post #17



HEY

so I was messing with the editor

and I noticed the "Movement - Collide" under the fields of an Unit Object.. there's a checked "Unused (Land09)"
I'm assuming it is the lowest cliff that is normally unwalkable.

If this were to be checked for an air unit.. would this create a similar effect as to making an unflyable zone?
I've yet to try it b/c i'm still sorta stuck on creating a freaking unit and linking infestor's spells to a hydralisk :C
(I also noticed that air units have "Flying" checked under the "Movement - Collide" field. Wonder what that means, because we know that flying units can be stacked, but they do move apart. What if I checked "Ground" for a flying unit?
I also remember that in SOTIS, the toximancer was a broodlord but acted as a ground unit)



None.

Nov 27 2010, 5:27 pm Biophysicist Post #18



Quote
I also noticed that air units have "Flying" checked under the "Movement - Collide" field. Wonder what that means, because we know that flying units can be stacked, but they do move apart. What if I checked "Ground" for a flying unit?
Collision flags are divided into air and ground and function quite differently. I believe that a unit collides as a flier if and only if it has at least one air and exactly zero ground flags checked. So, flagging an air unit as ground would cause it to collide with ground units.

I think. Can't exactly do research right now, so I'm going off memory. I AM certain of the first sentence, though.



None.

Nov 29 2010, 6:44 pm UnholyUrine Post #19



QUESTION:

It turns out that I'm completely incompetent and I cannot figure out for the life of me how to give a Hydra the Spawn Infested terran spell.
Can someone lead me through this?

1. Input the infested terran spell into a Hydra directly
2. Change the Range of the spell (how far the hydra is allowed to spit the ball)
3. Change the speed at which the infested terran spawns from the egg
4. change the infested terran into a baneling.
5. Change something to make it so that it is believable that the hydra's spitting an egg out. (Aesthetics)

THANKS!



None.

Nov 29 2010, 7:09 pm NicholasBeige Post #20



It would be best to create a custom ability.

For reference:

An ability involves the following objects, the Ability, the Button (displayed on the Units command card) and the Effects it causes.

Create your new ability, create a button for it and give it to your Hydra both in the Command Card and the Abilities slots. With this set up, you are ready to create your ability.

I am going from memory here... so it might be a little hazy.

Edit: It worked.

You then need an Effect of type Launch Missile. Create this and then view the Infested Terran Launch Missile effect also (you can do this by Ctrl+Clicking an object on the lower-left hand side panel in the Data Editor.

Once you are viewing them both, just Ctrl+X and Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V the fields across which you deem important. Mover is a pretty important one, so is Ammo - Unit.

The Impact Effect which the Infested Terran ability uses is actually a Spawn effect. So, you'll want to create your own Spawn effect which creates a Baneling.

Hook up your Spawn Effect to trigger when your Launch Missile effect impacts on something.

Then finally give your Ability the Launch Missile effect. Et voila.



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