Staredit Network > Forums > SC2 Custom Maps > Topic: Epic SC1 idea for SC2
Epic SC1 idea for SC2
Nov 14 2010, 4:46 am
By: ClansAreForGays  

Nov 14 2010, 4:46 am ClansAreForGays Post #1





If you've ever played the space station Where's Waldo for SC1, then you can better visualize where I'm going with. This map does not have a genre yet, and will be as different as AOS was, giving us "Dota" type maps. Sort of Like a D&D map, minus the DM's innate ability to squash you at any point.

This map was inspired by the famous Peter's Evil Overlord List a while back just before SC2.

High Concept: A 1 vs 3-5 player game with ample NPC's of changing alliances. A Game set in the Kingdom of Kohl: A land who's monarchy has recently been overthrown by the new corrupt King Zordak(Player Controlled). The only thing keeping him awake at night is an unaccounted for prince, and his rag-tag band of allies(Player Controlled). They are no match for the powerful King Zordak, but finding them will be no easy task in the massive Kingdom Kohl. If left unchecked for long enough, could the prince actually amass enough power and/or support to take back the throne, and claim his inheritance?


Setting: The 256x256 medieval Kingdom of Kohl. An age of of swords, arrows, horses, and magic. News has already spread of their new king, but so have rumors of his ruthlessness. Peasants struggle between the factuality of his cruelty, and his threats against disobedience. In the east, the simple farming town of Chester is struggling to stay afloat after the new king's tax increases. To the north, the town of Aysel - a politically detached city that keeps churning regardless of who the ruling class may be. Down south, ruined temples sit vacant in the Forgotten City; but haunted with echoes of ancient magic. In the west lies the mining town of Clubbard. In the center of it all sits the Capitol, armed to the hilt with the finest guards, but may have a few secret weaknesses...


Gameplay: An enormous game of hide n seek.
For King Zordak - Scour the country side for the prince and his companions. How exactly? Unfortunately, you are but one man. Still, you have a scared court of advisers at your disposal. Get a general idea of their location from the Court Gypsy's crystal ball. Send your various generals to execute them, or at least corner them until you arrive on your black horse. Order the Court Witch to curse their luck, or send disasters their way. Or perhaps you are a paranoid turtle player, and want to stay locked up in your castle of doom, fortifying yourself with endless traps. You can spend your kingdom's resources to either make an unstoppable armada, spread propaganda smearing the wandering heroes, or selfishly plunder everything to enhance your magic and strength, becoming a demigod. Also, a bunch of this.

For the prince - From the start, you are given the freedom to march in the Capitol and reclaim your birthright, but you will surely die before the first gate falls. Wander the towns, searching for anything that would bring the unjust king down. Grind in the forestal paths that lead between the 4 cities, and match the king in strength. Perform mini-quests to help the plighted peasants, give them courage, win their trust, and encourage rebellion. When you feel ready to confront the king, you can storm the castle with brute force, use trickery and secrets to sneak in, ambush him traveling; the hunted become the hunters, or even immerse yourself in the lore to employ secret one-shot game ending weapons.


Forgiveness - In a gameplay sense. Optimistic game designers like to think of their game's qualities working like Diablo stats; they can all go up. Realistic ones know certain parts of game design work like a teetortot; one goes up while the other goes down. This is easy to see in complexity vs balance, but I believe in another one: Competitiveness vs Forgiveness. Truly competitive games have to penalize you for every mistake you make, it's only fair. I'm not really going for that. Being an evil overlord can be hard at first, so there will be a trusted adviser guiding you (experienced players can smote him). Of course that won't be enough; it never is. The invisible tipping point will be a long way down the road, as opposed to say Cat n Mouse, where it's one way or the other in the first 3 minutes even though the game actually takes 30 minutes. It won't be completely fair that the king gets so many chances, but I, and you, can live with that.

To be continued...




Nov 14 2010, 5:01 am Dungeon-Master Post #2



Looks like a great 6 hour-long game, definately am going to paly it if it's made, and if I got a spare day...



None.

Nov 19 2010, 11:01 pm Tempz Post #3



Looks like a great game however the last one will defiantly seemed rigged like many "God Cat N Mouse" games so its best to have neutral parties that can join the king or hero? each with there own objective... that's more a side thing?



None.

Nov 19 2010, 11:40 pm UnholyUrine Post #4



How long are you planning to make each game?

For popularity purposes, 1hr should be the maximum average game time
For good design/epic map purposes, 2hrs should be the maximum average game time
Anything above that is just lulsy.... make it like labyrinthos.. but you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who'd play an epic form of hide and seek for so long.

Have you thought about Villages that can be pillaged by the Overlord that'd reduce the heroes' chances of surviving? Such as killing a building that'd heal them or give them upgrades... What other environmental things have you in mind? Like, what traps and such... How many livesWhat kind of curses from the witch are you thinking about?

Overall, it sounds like a very cool concept and a good idea.. but it's going to be hard to design a game this way. The balance between 1v3-5 is always very hard... Similar to cat and mouse, the weaker heroes will often be much more vulnerable in the beginning.. but in the end, be almost impenetrable. How do you intend to balance this sort of trend?

I think that the evil overlord shouldn't have too many advisors.. but each advisor should be pretty integral to him, and be specialized. He can probably buy death knights or something for scouting.. but most should be slower, but stronger, than the heroes (at least in the beginning). Also, if heroes can't outrun the evil overlord from the beginning.. that'd be bad too D:

bah i don't know.. too many variables to think about...
good luck :D



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[06:25 pm]
m.0.n.3.y -- Here's another question. I'm using switch randomization for powerups. There are 9 powerups, and I only want any of the powerups to appear only about 30% of the time. So I was just going to use 5 switches for a total of 32 options and have the other 23 results restart the randomization process. Is there a better way to do this?
[06:04 pm]
m.0.n.3.y -- NudeRaider
NudeRaider shouted: m.0.n.3.y Pro and Demon already gave correct answers, but let me add a pretty elegant way: Have the detection trigger owned by whoever is convenient for you. A single computer player, a force, all players - it doesn't matter. Now detect for the arbiter in conditions - also doesn't really matter how. In actions just set a dc to 1 for all players or the force that should have the text displayed. It will set the dc for each player to 1 individually. Because of this you can make a 2nd trigger that checks for the dc for current player and remove the dc for current player afterwards.
Ok that makes perfect sense NudeRaider
NudeRaider shouted: This method also has a bonus use: If you detect the arbiter in conditions for current player (set trigger owned accordingly!) then you can do the following: Add 1 to dc for current player AND add 1 to dc for all players. And in your 2nd trigger you can distinguish between players that just are informed and the player that actually had it, because their dc will be 2 instead of 1. So you can give them an additional reward or something dynamically.
Wow that's awesome! I'll definitely be doing this. Thanks for the tip, that's really cool
[05:29 pm]
NudeRaider -- This method also has a bonus use: If you detect the arbiter in conditions for current player (set trigger owned accordingly!) then you can do the following: Add 1 to dc for current player AND add 1 to dc for all players. And in your 2nd trigger you can distinguish between players that just are informed and the player that actually had it, because their dc will be 2 instead of 1. So you can give them an additional reward or something dynamically.
[05:27 pm]
NudeRaider -- m.0.n.3.y
m.0.n.3.y shouted: NEW QUESTION: How is it possible to show text to all players when something occurs? EX: Player 1 builds an Arbiter. Trigger says, When player 1 builds an Arbiter, do something, then remove the Arbiter. Now, I'd like text to show for all other players when P1 builds an Arbiter that says "P1 built an arbiter!". But how is this possible when the the original trigger that detects if P1 built an Arbiter then removes the Arbiter in it's actions? Like, the Arbiter is detected as built, then Action occurs for P1, then Arbiter is removed. So how can you detect if the Arbiter is built to show text to the other plays saying "P1 built an Arbiter" if the other trigger quickly removes the Arbiter? Does that make sense?
Pro and Demon already gave correct answers, but let me add a pretty elegant way: Have the detection trigger owned by whoever is convenient for you. A single computer player, a force, all players - it doesn't matter. Now detect for the arbiter in conditions - also doesn't really matter how. In actions just set a dc to 1 for all players or the force that should have the text displayed. It will set the dc for each player to 1 individually. Because of this you can make a 2nd trigger that checks for the dc for current player and remove the dc for current player afterwards.
[05:22 pm]
NudeRaider -- that's why the All Players thing is neat: When one player runs a wait, their copy of hypers will actually be blocked. But the hyper effect will not be disrupted because the hypers of all the other players are still running.
[05:21 pm]
NudeRaider -- *running at the same time for the same player.
[05:20 pm]
NudeRaider -- m.0.n.3.y
m.0.n.3.y shouted: Mini Moose 2707 Shit. Ok what are the exact circumstances where using wait triggers causes wait blocks and messes things up? EX: If player 8 is a computer and has hyper triggers at the bottom of his list, can I use a few of triggers on each human player 1-6 with a few waits each lasting 50 - 1000ms? I've read the articles in SEN Wiki but still not super clear on it :/
simple: 2 waits running at the same time. Hyper triggers constantly block each other, but they have no other purpose than to force another trigger loop, and stay in that "blocking each other" state as long as possible (=NEO)
[05:17 pm]
NudeRaider -- Dem0n
Dem0n shouted: It's recommended to never use waits if you have hyper triggers.
yes and no. If you have to ask: yes. If you know what you're doing, you can use them in a non-disruptive manner.
[05:15 pm]
NudeRaider -- m.0.n.3.y
m.0.n.3.y shouted: ALSO: @NudeRaider for your "other setup" you mean give the hypers to the "All Players" player checkbox, not to each player individually, right?
That's equivalent. At the start of a game sc parses triggers and creates copies of triggers owned by player groups (forces and all players) to each player that is part of that group. During runtime there's only individual trigger owners.
[04:04 pm]
m.0.n.3.y -- Dem0n
Dem0n shouted: That won't work. And it's one extra trigger with 2 actions. Hardly extra work.
You're right. Thank you!
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