Staredit Network > Forums > SC2 Melee > Topic: Cheezetoss doing gas block and canon camping
Cheezetoss doing gas block and canon camping
Oct 21 2010, 9:58 pm
By: Dungeon-Master  

Oct 21 2010, 9:58 pm Dungeon-Master Post #1



Yea, because 80% of toss is cheesing in silver, so i'l call em from now on the Cheesetoss.
This fucking newbish cheese should put him behind in economy and make him vulnerable to a rush but NOOOO he makes canons instead of a gateway and just stands on his fat bitch ass while slowly building his economy and then comes and win later in the game. what the fuck should i do against the fucking Cheezetoss?



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Oct 21 2010, 10:26 pm CecilSunkure Post #2



If they spend 300 minerals on their first cannon, then they just gave you a free expansion. If they steal you vespene, just make more lings early on.

If they cannon up heavily on one base, immediately take your second expansion.

If they cannon up and fast expand behind the cannons, immediately take your second expansion.

If they use just a few cannons on one base, expect one base aggression, and take only your natural until you can safely take your third.



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Oct 21 2010, 11:30 pm Centreri Post #3

Relatively ancient and inactive

Yeah... defensive cannoning means you get map control and can do whatever the hell you want. Offensive cannoning is easily countered.



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Oct 22 2010, 4:32 pm ImagoDeo Post #4



Quote from Centreri
Yeah... defensive cannoning means you get map control and can do whatever the hell you want. Offensive cannoning is easily countered.

Yeah. It's all about map control. If he's turtling, expand. Expand, build up a 200/200 army of roach/hydra/ling, and steamroll him hard. He deserves it if he's turtling. Alternatively, you could just go mutas and harass him into the ground, or let him build what he thinks is a deathforce, while you go broodlord/corruptor. The point is, if he's isolating himself, he's letting you do whatever the heck you want. TAKE ADVANTAGE.

I've lost quite a few games because I've thought, "Oh, I'll just sit here and laugh while he lets me build up an attack force... HOLY CRAP WTF HE HAS A MILLION BROODLORDS...!"



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Oct 23 2010, 10:49 pm BeDazed Post #5



Alternatively, you could build an overwhelming army of Ultralisks and roll a turtle over more satisfyingly.



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Oct 23 2010, 11:42 pm Neki Post #6



I prefer Broodlords in overwhelming numbers. :awesome:



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Oct 26 2010, 12:07 am BiOAtK Post #7



I'm high gold and still haven't found a way to beat the 12forge pylon block ramp -> cannon -> mass expand -> faceroll. ):



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Oct 26 2010, 12:44 am Neki Post #8



You counter his expansions with your own expansions? You should be able to keep yourself one expansion ahead of him because you should be doing a 13-pool 14 hatch build or something. If he decides to expand any earlier than you, you punish him with zerglings. If he's just cannoning like crazy in his base, he's giving you the option to expand without consequence.



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Oct 26 2010, 12:46 am UnholyUrine Post #9



I wonder if this is a good strategy against possible terran reaper rush :sly:

Do a super early probe scout and build on both gas =D (they only cost 25 min? I don't remember.. I don't play melee enough :() And anyway, you can cancel them before they complete.. but it'd be enough to stop terran from building tech labs.
Would it?



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Oct 26 2010, 12:57 am Neki Post #10



You shouldn't have trouble with an early reaper rush unless they do it really early (which I'm not sure if it's even possible to do proxy barracks + tech lab because of the supply depot requirement now) but if you see nothing in his base, you should be expecting a proxy anyways. Getting one zealot out while you get a stalker out basically nullifies any early reaper harassment, as soon as you gain one stalker, you basically nullify the early reaper. Just remember he probably sacrificed a lot of his early economy to do this.



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Oct 26 2010, 1:29 am CecilSunkure Post #11



Make a chrono stalker at 100% cyb core, build a zealot while cyb core is being constructed..

Early reaper rushes suck now due to the nerfs.



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Oct 26 2010, 1:48 am Decency Post #12



How is a Protoss "mass expanding" against a Zerg when they've invested tons in cannons? If you scout a forge before Gateway, drop your expo early and pump drones. If he gets an expo you should be able to get a fast third before you're under any threat.

You could even expand with your fast expo to a gold and completely screw him over, depending on the map.



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Oct 27 2010, 9:03 pm Dungeon-Master Post #13



Well thanks for the tips, it never happened to me again but I will remember it when it does happen.



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Oct 27 2010, 10:28 pm NicholasBeige Post #14



Quote from CecilSunkure
Early reaper rushes suck now due to the nerfs.

I must disagree with this one. A barracks and a techlab are pretty much standard procedure for a Terran. The 50/50 resource cost of 1 reaper is negligible considering that any player with atleast a little bit of skill in micro can use this reaper to 1) get a proper (late-)early scout of your opponents base and 2) take out at least 3 drones/probes.

I just had quite a funny (1v1) game in which a French Zerg player flamed the hell out of me for going 2 gateway proxy + forge and 1 cannon on his ramp. He massed roaches and eventually took out my proxy base - which was blocking his expansion. But by this time I had two more gateways in my home and warp-gate tech was completed. I held off his 20+ roaches with 2 Sentries making Force Field on my ramp, while my stalkers proceeded to whittle down his numbers.

I managed to hide a Pylon + Stargate near where my proxy was - I forget the name of the map, since I don't play 1v1 much - but it was behind some Vision Blocking doodad stuff. I proceeded to hold off his roach force, and made 4 Void Rays on his doorstep. He transitioned into Hydras too late and I steamrolled him with Voids + Stalkers.

No offence to the topic starter, but cheese is just a derogatory term people use when a strategy beats them consistently and confidently. Losing to 'cheese' and then using 'omg it was cheese' as your excuse - just show's that you don't have a counter for said 'cheese' strategy.

What the Zerg player (in my example) should have done, was put up two spine crawlers to stop my zealot aggression, and take an expansion. What he chose to do was counter my zealots + cannon with zerglings and transition into roaches. As soon as I saw the mass roaches I went void-rays.

As people have mentioned before, map-control is essential to beating a protoss-cannon proxy. Or, if you prefer quick wins, scout eary - counter his proxy. Then speed-ling into his mineral line.



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Oct 29 2010, 2:13 am CecilSunkure Post #15



Quote from name:Cardinal
Quote from CecilSunkure
Early reaper rushes suck now due to the nerfs.

I must disagree with this one. A barracks and a techlab are pretty much standard procedure for a Terran. The 50/50 resource cost of 1 reaper is negligible considering that any player with atleast a little bit of skill in micro can use this reaper to 1) get a proper (late-)early scout of your opponents base and 2) take out at least 3 drones/probes.
One reaper won't take anything out if the opponent has a single (standard) stalker. Scouting this early doesn't get you any info an scv couldn't get you.



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Oct 30 2010, 11:03 pm BeDazed Post #16



And yeah, if you didn't do any damage to the opponent, then one reaper's 50/50 is not negligible. 50 gas isn't something that's negligible at the start of the game you know.



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Nov 10 2010, 10:37 pm ImagoDeo Post #17



Quote from UnholyUrine
I wonder if this is a good strategy against possible terran reaper rush :sly:

Do a super early probe scout and build on both gas =D (they only cost 25 min? I don't remember.. I don't play melee enough :() And anyway, you can cancel them before they complete.. but it'd be enough to stop terran from building tech labs.
Would it?

Problem with denying a reaper rush is that smart terrans will just go 3rax mass rine steamroll you hard. The minerals it takes to build on his geysers put you back far enough that it's not really worth the gas that it denies to him. imo it's more worth it to go later and deny one gas than it is to go early and deny both. If you can delay his tanks, you can go colossi/zealot and own his face.



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Jan 3 2011, 7:39 am StarBlue Post #18



Do a regular zergling rush and go straight for his building probes, that way you take them out one-by-one. And once he sends all of his workers after you, just run. Once he starts mining again, attack, and micro enough to keep him from mining, while you also get more zerglings.
WIN




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Jan 3 2011, 10:39 pm Tempz Post #19



As long as you scout out a cannon rush build then you can expand and kill them with overwhelming attack force...

another way is to all out just rush with your workers and lings/rines/zlots w/e floats your boat =p



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