Staredit Network > Forums > SC2 Melee > Topic: Protoss Build Orders
Protoss Build Orders
Aug 23 2010, 7:37 am
By: CecilSunkure  

Aug 23 2010, 7:37 am CecilSunkure Post #1



Here is a collection of the build orders that I use currently. For the time being I've been using only opening build orders, as the SC2 meta game is evolving incredibly fast right now. As such, openings are more important to memorize and perfect since the field of complexity for openings is so much more narrow than mid/late game. Once I have all my openings memorized and streamlined I'll move onto build orders with a more long term purpose.

I have my code formatted so that a direct copy//paste from the below codebox into notepad will allow you to print the paper off on normal 8.5x11 paper, and have all the whitespace lined up nicely.

At the beginning of each build order's name I have a letter like this: [P]

[P] = vs Protoss build order
[Z] = vs Zerg build order
[T] = vs Terran build order
[All] = General matchup opening

I referenced most of these from Teamliquid.net.

Here are three PvZ replays showing how to use a Forge Fast Expansion. I did not play perfectly, but the replays are still useful: http://www.mediafire.com/?t8rj1d58m4xdb4o

Openings.txt
[P] Kowi Counter (With Zealot)

    10 Pylon
    10 Gate
    12 Gas
    15 Gate
    15 Core
    15 Zeal - Chronoboosted
    18 Pylon
    19 Stalker/Stalker both Chronoboosted
    23 Gateway (add another afterwards if need be!)

[P] Kowi Counter (Without Zealot)

    10 Pylon
    Chrono Boost your Probes once the Pylon finishes
    12 Gateway - scout
    Chrono Boost your Probes once you start production of your 13th Probe
    14 Assimilator
    15 Gateway
    16 Cybernetics Core
    You should be aware that he is 4warpgating you now
    16 Pylon
    19 Double Stalkers - both Chrono Boosted
    22 Warp - Chrono Boosted

[P] 9 Pylon 10 Gate - Zealot Pressure (Micro intensive-ish)

    9 Pylon (do not chronoboost Nexus, send probe to scout)
    10 Gate
    10 Gate
    10 Probe
    11 Probe
    As soon as the first Gate finishes, build and chronoboost a Zealot.
    First Zealot should finish as the second Gate finihes, build and chrono two         more zealots.
    18 Pylon
    Resume probe production

[T] 10 Pylon 10 Gateway - Quick Stalker (Vs Reaper Openings)

    9 Chrono Boost Nexus (as soon as it has 25 energy)
    10 Pylon (do not queue the 11th probe)
    10 Gateway, Probe and Chrono Boost Nexus
    12 Assimilator->send probe to scout
    15 Cybernetics Core
    17 Pylon (start saving Chrono Boost)
    19 Stalker and Chrono Boost on Gateway
        Transition to Tech favored due to low minerals early gas

[Z] 10 Pylon 10 Gateway - Zeal Pressure

    (One Chronoboost on Probes)
    9 (Rally Nexus to Natural)
    10 Pylon (do not queue the 11th probe)
    10 Gateway, Probe, Chrono Boost Nexus and send probe to scout
    13 Pylon
    15 Zealot and Chrono Boost on Gateway
    Keep making Zealots and Pylons, Chrono Boosting as it becomes available
        Transition to 2gate or FE

[Z] Forge FE

    9 Pylon at Choke Point of Natural Expansion, scout
    12 Forge at Choke
    14 Nexus at Natural Expansion
    14 Two Photon Cannons Behind the Forge
    Gateway to further restrict choke
        2 Stargate Voidrays very effective transition

[Z] 2 Gate Vs Zerg - Meant to Punish Early Expo

    9 Pylon
    10 Chrono Boost Nexus
    12 Gateway (Send scout, save Chrono Boost)
    14 Gateway
    15 Pylon
    16 Zealot (stop making Probes, use Chrono Boost on Gateways)
    18 Zealot
    20 Zealot
    20 Pylon
    22 Zealot
    24 Zealot
    26 Resume probes
    27 Zealot
        Must deal significant damage. Adjust zeal levels by scouting info.

[All] 9 Pylon 12 Gateway - Faster Tech Less Econ

    9 Pylon
    10 Chrono Boost Nexus (as soon as Pylon is ready)
    12 Gateway, send Probe to scout, Chrono Boost Nexus[1]
    14 Assimilator
    16 Pylon
    (17 Cybernetics Core)

[All] 9 Pylon 13 Gateway - Slower Tech More Econ

    9 Pylon
    10 Chrono Boost Nexus Continuosly
    13 Gateway, send Probe to scout
    15 Assimilator
    16 Pylon
    Core @ 100% Gateway

[All] 1 Gate Core - Standard Fast Tech

    9 Pylon
    11 Chrono Boost Nexus
    12 Gateway, use Probe to scout
    13 Chrono Boost Nexus
    14 Assimilator
    15 Pylon
    16 Zealot
    When Gateway finishes (18) Cybernetics Core

[All] Mothership Rush (Allin)

    9 Pylon (and Probe scout)
    (Chronoboost Nexus until 30.)
    15 Pylon
    16 Assimilator (1)
    17 Pylon
    18 Assimilator (2)
    18 Gateway (1, start slowly building Zealots, Stalkers for Mass Recall)
    22 Cybernetics Core
    28 Stargate
    28 Pylon
    30 Gateway (2) **
    34 Fleet Beacon
    (400 Minerals, 400 Gas) Mothership
    ** = Start saving Chrono Boost for the Mothership.
        Notes: Must hide fleet beacon tech.


**This post will be updated with whatever my current file(s) for build orders I use.

Post has been edited 3 time(s), last time on Sep 15 2010, 8:56 pm by CecilSunkure.



None.

Aug 23 2010, 7:48 am CecilSunkure Post #2



The build orders I have been having most success with are:
  • Vs Terran
    • 10 Pylon 10 Gateway - Quick Stalker
    • 9 Pylon 13 Gateway
  • Vs Protoss
    • Kowi Counter (With Zealot)
    • 10 Pylon 10 Gate - Zealot Pressure
  • Vs Zerg
    • 10 Pylon 10 Gateway (Vs Zerg version) - Zealot Pressure

Currently the most popular Terran build orders are the 1/1/1 (1 fac 1 rax 1 port), 3 rax, and early reapers. Whenever I deal with 1/1/1 or 3 rax, I open with a 9 Pylon 13 Gateway, constantly chronoboosting units out of the gateway followed by an expansion. I then use my economic lead from the expansion to control the Terran until I finally overwhelm him. This has worked about 14/15 times vs Terran opponents. Against early reapers (which is usually given away by ridiculously early Terran vespene), I quickly get up stalkers to counter the reapers with the other build order I just listed.

PvP is a bit stupid right now. Currently there is an infamous build order called the Korean 4 Warpgate that is pretty difficult to stop. If you detect this build coming at you (info on how to in the link), then the optimal counter is the Kowi counter -which is a decent all around opening in PvP. You will most likely lose with the Kowi counter as an opening if the opponent proxy gates. The other build order is the early zealot 2 gate build I listed. This build is efficient against proxy gates, and is also efficient against most "standard" Protoss openings. It is allin-ish, but it is effective and can pretty easily be transitioned out of. This 2 gate early pressure is countered by a 2 gate passive Protoss.

Vs Zerg I love to apply early pressure with zealots. This forces the Zerg player to spend their precious larvae on zerglings as opposed to drones. This can easily be transitioned into a fast expansion when there is a natural expansion choke, but if there isn't you can transition into tech. The build vs Zerg I listed above is especially effective if the Zerg player tries to early hatch. The 10 Pylon 10 Gateway (Vs Zerg version) isn't meant to finish off the Zerg player early, but if you see that can you can definitely just transition this build into an early 2 gate.



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Aug 24 2010, 4:09 pm Vi3t-X Post #3



Fast DT absolutely destroys 4gate, because its such an expensive build. Rushing DT tech however, is dangerous on maps with huge ramps for easy run-bys. Another option to the 4gate is that once you see that they're getting gateways and chronoboosting the cybernetics core (which means a warpgate rush), you need to halt all chronoboosting until you can get a Robotics Facility up, and lay down an Immortal or two. Wall off your main with a pylon. 100 mineral investment buys time.



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Aug 28 2010, 4:52 am NinjaOtis Post #4



Yo Cecil, thanks for posting these build orders, my game has really improved, I even moved up to Gold league and have no problem beating anyone I've faced so far, looking forward to playing high ranked Platinum, and even Diamond, in time.



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Aug 28 2010, 6:49 am CecilSunkure Post #5



Hey no problem. I haven't updated my build order file yet, so this is still the most up-to-date copy.

Also be sure to check out my livestream to see me play protoss from a first person view: http://www.livestream.com/succinct



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Sep 4 2010, 7:53 am Neki Post #6



I've been running the standard fast tech build to get quick void rays in most match ups, but there is a couple of problems I need help alleviating.
1) When I get my first void ray out, should I immediately send it to the opposing base? I usually wait for two and then send them at the same time, queuing up void rays to go to the guy's base. Should I keep building void rays after the first two?
2) Should I block off my entrance? It allows me to stop their scouting and easily contain any small forces, but it leaves me open to early aggression. (Though I do scout at 9 instead of 12)
3) If my void ray rush is stopped, what should I transition into? 4gate or 2robo? This is probably the thing I want to know the most, because most of my games so far has ended with me beating them with the void rays or me being crushed after they've died.




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Sep 4 2010, 11:26 am Amadi Post #7



I can only answer from the perspective of Zerg, but here goes.

Quote from name:Taylor Swift

1) When I get my first void ray out, should I immediately send it to the opposing base? I usually wait for two and then send them at the same time, queuing up void rays to go to the guy's base. Should I keep building void rays after the first two?

It will take an eternity from one Void Ray to kill a Queen, and two of them are just going to eat it alive. Most Zerg players get an extra Queen against Protoss to deal with potential Phoenixes, Void rays and to spread creep. You should probably wait for two to go to the base, but nothing stops you from harassing Overlords with just one of them. Sometimes you might want to hide your Void Rays from the Zerg until you have enough to have a go at it, though, but oftentimes they get scouted by an Overlord anyhow.

Once the Zerg player gets Spore Crawlers or Hydras up, extra Void Rays are just a luxurous waste of resources. They really do not do too much at that point. If he's struggling to get these up, you can get extra, or then you can get Phoenixes. If he gets his defenses, forget about Void Rays. Phoenixes stay somewhat relevant against Zerg the whole game through, though, since they are fast enough to harass Overlords before slower Zerg anti-air gets there, and can make retreating really disadvantageous for the Zerg. They can also lift Queens if there are not too many of them and there are no Spore Crawlers around.

Quote from name:Taylor Swift
2) Should I block off my entrance? It allows me to stop their scouting and easily contain any small forces, but it leaves me open to early aggression. (Though I do scout at 9 instead of 12)

Against Zerg, leave 1 square wide chokepoint and stick a Zealot in there. This will keep your base safe from Zerglings for a good while, and when the Zerg player gets Banes/Hydras/Roaches, the wall-in wouldn't do much anyways.

Quote from name:Taylor Swift
3) If my void ray rush is stopped, what should I transition into? 4gate or 2robo? This is probably the thing I want to know the most, because most of my games so far has ended with me beating them with the void rays or me being crushed after they've died.

4-gate is not that strong against Zerg to begin with, since Roach Ling > Zealot Stalker (Sentry). The fact that he has stopped your Void Rays also more or less means he has Hydras, and they are really strong against Gateway units as well. You would probably do better getting High Templars or Colossi at this point, since both of those absolutely demolish Hydralisks and remain strong against rest of the Zerg ground forces.

What I suggest is that you expand while you are keeping pressure with your air units, and then proceed to get a decent defensive force of Gateway units while you proceed to tech to something relevant. If you halt your unit generation to tech, the Zerg player can probably crush you with his army in that period of time, especially if he uses Overseers' Contaminate on your unit production facilities. Keeping a few Phoenixes active is often useful, since they can stop the Overseering and force the Zerg player on his toes by threatening to harass the base if he leaves to attack.



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Sep 4 2010, 7:56 pm Neki Post #8



Thanks for the advice Adami, I haven't played Zerg much but I'll make sure to keep that in mind. The one time where I was close to losing is he went a 8 roach rush early when I only had 4 zealots and 1 stalker, and I managed to hold it off with constant reinforcements. I then pushed with two void rays in his base, and killed his fast expansion with my ground forces. My biggest problem with my match ups now is PvP, a fast tech never seems to void rays never works because they can easily mass stalkers, even if I prevent the scouting probe.



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Sep 4 2010, 10:56 pm CecilSunkure Post #9



I wouldn't rely on fast void rays. They are pretty easily countered. The best use of void rays is to force an enemy to get some anti-air tech, or to hit the back of a base while attacking the front, or to hit unprotected expansions.

Playing with a standard 1 gate robo every game will help you get better, if you quickly get an observer, scout them, and react to whatever they are doing.



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Sep 5 2010, 2:11 am Neki Post #10



Only 1 gate? Does that mean I should just do a kowi BO and transition into robotics?



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Sep 5 2010, 2:51 am CecilSunkure Post #11



Quote from name:Taylor Swift
Only 1 gate? Does that mean I should just do a kowi BO and transition into robotics?
That would be a pretty safe bet. Kowi counter isn't good if they 2 gate proxy allin, but I use the kowi counter as a general opening all the time. Another great opener is a 10 pylon 10 gate transition into 2 gate zealot pressure. I also use 9 pylon 13 gate a lot, which is the most economic. All three of these easily transition into robo.



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Sep 11 2010, 9:44 pm Neki Post #12



4 warpgate just killed me today pretty bad, I even scouted it and went Kowi, but he just massed me to death with stalkers with a proxy pylon, what am I supposed to do in this situation? I held off the initial proxy pylon and his first push, but he was just massing stalkers and I only had two gateways to fend it off. Should I drop a robo and go for the immortal / collosi?



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Sep 12 2010, 7:09 pm CecilSunkure Post #13



Kowi counter is used against the korean 4 warpgate, where they pylon into your base with pure zealots, and have no probes mining on vespene. You were just 4 warpgated.

The Kowi counter will only give you two early stalkers, and can be extremely useful if the enemy has only one stalker out, or no stalkers. You can then just deal damage to their probe line. You have to transition out of the build order into something else; you need to react to what the enemy player is doing. 4 warpgate is standard play in PvP, and you need to react once you do scout it. You can react by 4 warpgating as well, or trying to out-tech him by staying up on your ramp.

If you post up your replay I can watch it and give you more specific feedback on that match.



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Sep 12 2010, 11:39 pm BiOAtK Post #14



Quote from Amadi
4-gate is not that strong against Zerg to begin with, since Roach Ling > Zealot Stalker (Sentry). The fact that he has stopped your Void Rays also more or less means he has Hydras, and they are really strong against Gateway units as well. You would probably do better getting High Templars or Colossi at this point, since both of those absolutely demolish Hydralisks and remain strong against rest of the Zerg ground forces.
Are you kidding me? RL < ZSS if you can force field at all. FF his rear and your Zealots can come in and do some real damage. Also, you suggest going straight from a gas-heavy early VR into a gas-heavy t2+? After your VR rush fails, simply get core units and expand. You're behind in resources and cannot really come back in the game, especially if he does the smart thing and expands after your rush fails, with a little pressure.



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Sep 13 2010, 10:05 am Amadi Post #15



Quote from BiOAtK
Are you kidding me? RL < ZSS if you can force field at all. FF his rear and your Zealots can come in and do some real damage.

Well, for whatever it's worth, KiWiKaWi demonstrated against Dimaga that you don't even need the Zealots, but that Stalker Sentry basically beats any zerg mid-game plan with proper micro, unless you give him an option to engage in a completely open field and get a free surround. I was assuming people were speaking of the Korean 4-gate, and against that the Roaches can easily kite the Zealots around, and Zerglings can deal with the potential 1-2 stalkers/sentries he might have because of forgetting to transfer workers from gas.

Quote from BiOAtK
Also, you suggest going straight from a gas-heavy early VR into a gas-heavy t2+?

As Zerg, I am continuously going from gas-heavy build to another. Mostly because the only one that isn't gas heavy is mass zerglings which basically sucks.

Quote from BiOAtK
After your VR rush fails, simply get core units and expand. You're behind in resources and cannot really come back in the game, especially if he does the smart thing and expands after your rush fails, with a little pressure.

As you claim that it is impossible to get back in to the game, you probably should see that you are doing something wrong there, as a lot of players do.



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Sep 13 2010, 3:02 pm CecilSunkure Post #16



Quote from Amadi
Quote from BiOAtK
Are you kidding me? RL < ZSS if you can force field at all. FF his rear and your Zealots can come in and do some real damage.

Well, for whatever it's worth, KiWiKaWi demonstrated against Dimaga that you don't even need the Zealots, but that Stalker Sentry basically beats any zerg mid-game plan with proper micro, unless you give him an option to engage in a completely open field and get a free surround.
This is true, but that happened successfully once out of two tries. If he had a single collosus in the mix I think his stalker blink would work much much better, despite the lack of 4-6 stalkers for the tech and price of a collosus. He also had almost no sentries both times, he seemed to really want to use a lot of stalkers.



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Sep 21 2010, 7:39 am Neki Post #17



Cecil has been helping improve my PvP play but one of my biggest problems still is my APM, which is relatively low still. I know APM =/= skill, but I think it's because I have so much trouble multi-tasking" maintaining probe production, pylons, chrono-boosts, warping in units, scouting, moving my army, how do people do it all while maintaining a focus on the game? :><:



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Sep 21 2010, 3:07 pm CecilSunkure Post #18



I know I was playing badly last night, but I still know a bit about playing.

When you play, you should have a couple different play modes. You should have a "macro" mindset, and a "OMG I need to focus on this so I don't die" mindset. You should normally be in the macro mindset, where you are constantly cycling through you list of things to do; check to see if you need to order more probes, use your chronoboost, continue climbing the tech tree, order more units, check your supply count, check your army positioning, etc. etc. You should be performing all the tasks needed to keep your game running as streamlined as possible in a sort of cycle.

The other mode is where you forget your cycle because some event is requiring near 100% of your attention. If you're really good at the game, you should try to minimize these moments by having good multi-tasking. Good multi-tasking comes from muscle memory and speed, and muscle memory and speed comes from a lot of practice.



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Sep 21 2010, 5:59 pm Neki Post #19



Hey I never said you were playing bad yesterday, I just couldn't believe you lost to my cutesy phoenix play. :P You probably could have just massed an army and rolled over my one base production. ;)



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Oct 14 2010, 4:37 pm Cam Post #20



I found a very strong Allin build on TL a couple weeks ago.
They referred to it as 'The Korean all in 4gate zealot'

But I'm sure other people have thought of it.

Basically you chrono as soon as possible then save it for warp gate tech.
10 - Pylon
10 - Gate
constant probes,
assimilator, 50 gas.
cybercore, instant warp gate, chrono constantly.
1 2 and 3 gate.
probe scout makes proxy pylon in base if possible, if not
outside of ramp.

Basically by the time you have your 4 warp gates, you have enough probes to get 400-500 minerals every cooldown, so you can send non-stop zealots at your enemy, even if they have a good defense, this usually takes it down.



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