Staredit Network > Forums > SC2 Melee > Topic: (2) Boathouse
(2) Boathouse
Jul 4 2010, 2:21 pm
By: Syphon  

Jul 4 2010, 2:21 pm Syphon Post #1





Should possibly rename to Flower Power based on what the editor thought my high yields should look like.

FEATURES! Large main and nat, back door with rocks, way too many ramps.

http://www.mediafire.com/?3btmmqih4mu



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Jul 4 2010, 6:41 pm ImagoDeo Post #2



Quote from Syphon


Should possibly rename to Flower Power based on what the editor thought my high yields should look like.

FEATURES! Large main and nat, back door with rocks, way too many ramps.

http://www.mediafire.com/?3btmmqih4mu

Yeah, rename it Flower Power. :lol:

FINALLY a main larger than my command center.

Of course, the entire map can be so heavily dominated by siege tanks that it's not even funny. T mech > all.

How the heck do you turn out maps so fast? Do you have no other obligations or something? This is like your seventh map in as many days.



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Jul 4 2010, 6:52 pm Syphon Post #3



Melee maps don't exactly take a lot of effort to make. This one actually took the longest.

How do siege tanks dominate everything?



Added another ramp to the main and changed the nat one to effectively half rush distance.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jul 4 2010, 7:16 pm by Syphon.



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Jul 4 2010, 7:31 pm ImagoDeo Post #4



Quote from Syphon
Melee maps don't exactly take a lot of effort to make. This one actually took the longest.

How do siege tanks dominate everything?



Added another ramp to the main and changed the nat one to effectively half rush distance.

Any decent terran player can place tanks in quite a few different locations that would greatly impede the travel of enemy ground units. Said Terran player could then expand and continue to build up his army without much fear of his opponent pushing out.

I like what you did in modifying the main, but I don't approve of two ramps into the main - that makes it a lot harder for Zerg especially to defend, although it does open up some opportunities for them to use zerglings as extremely effective harass. Essentially, having those two ramps kills any Terran's walloff unless he spends the extra resources to build a second wall in the nat. It splits up resources and defenses quite a lot. Now, I'm not saying it's particularly a bad thing, but you really do need to be careful when you're messing with balance this much.

If I were you, I'd switch the main and the natural and remove the ramp from the current nat. Also widen the ramp into the current main. But that's just me.



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Jul 4 2010, 8:11 pm Syphon Post #5



Quote from ImagoDeo
Quote from Syphon
Melee maps don't exactly take a lot of effort to make. This one actually took the longest.

How do siege tanks dominate everything?



Added another ramp to the main and changed the nat one to effectively half rush distance.

Any decent terran player can place tanks in quite a few different locations that would greatly impede the travel of enemy ground units. Said Terran player could then expand and continue to build up his army without much fear of his opponent pushing out.

I like what you did in modifying the main, but I don't approve of two ramps into the main - that makes it a lot harder for Zerg especially to defend, although it does open up some opportunities for them to use zerglings as extremely effective harass. Essentially, having those two ramps kills any Terran's walloff unless he spends the extra resources to build a second wall in the nat. It splits up resources and defenses quite a lot. Now, I'm not saying it's particularly a bad thing, but you really do need to be careful when you're messing with balance this much.

If I were you, I'd switch the main and the natural and remove the ramp from the current nat. Also widen the ramp into the current main. But that's just me.

I was thinking about switching them, but then I think it'd be too easy to turtle with the double-cliffs on it. Plenty of maps have more than one choke, but I still think it's easy enough to wall off the main on low ground to justify keeping both. Especially with how tall the nat ramp is.



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Jul 5 2010, 5:55 am UnholyUrine Post #6



A nitpicky problem: the ramps are too close together, making the map feel a little tight.

I'm also not sure whether having no turret line behind the base (or i guess, partially taken away) would be a balance issue.

I think it'll be cool that the high yield area has gigantic ramps.. then people may make use of the height difference during battles.

It could also use some sexier textures :D .. it sux that I don't have enough time, or else i'd practice with the texturing.



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Jul 8 2010, 5:12 am Super Duper Post #7



Tanks on the cliff near the main's mineral fields = GG.
Way too tight.



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Jul 8 2010, 2:05 pm Syphon Post #8



Umm... There's nowhere on the map that tanks can reach the mains line via cliffs. Or the natural's line... Or the third's line.



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Jul 10 2010, 1:14 am ImagoDeo Post #9



Quote from Syphon
Umm... There's nowhere on the map that tanks can reach the mains line via cliffs. Or the natural's line... Or the third's line.

She means right behind the mineral line. And she's right - a doom drop there = gg. The tanks are, afaik, impossible to reach with ground units, and they'll totally destroy any ranged units that try to engage them because it'd be impossible to deadzone them. It's actually kind of ridiculous. This is what most people call 'turret room' and it's very very important on maps. That's another thing I've been noticing about your maps - little or no turret room, or very very weird mineral formations that block stuff. Minerals should never block stuff! EVAR. I neglected to mention it because there were more pressing problems, such as the size of your mains and, for that matter, the size of the maps themselves - in general, they're pretty Terran-oriented because they're rather tight - park siege tanks here, a few there, one or two here and all your base are belong to me. Then I can expand and take you out almost at leisure.



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Jul 11 2010, 2:56 am Kimaru2 Post #10



How did you make the map perfectly symmetrical? The mirror tool only works for rectangular selections. You mirrored it on a angle. Isn't there an XY tool like in SCM Draft?



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Jul 11 2010, 5:29 am Syphon Post #11



Quote from Kimaru2
How did you make the map perfectly symmetrical? The mirror tool only works for rectangular selections. You mirrored it on a angle. Isn't there an XY tool like in SCM Draft?
Made the bottom, copied it, flipped it 180, pasted it.
Quote from ImagoDeo
It's actually kind of ridiculous. This is what most people call 'turret room' and it's very very important on maps. That's another thing I've been noticing about your maps - little or no turret room, or very very weird mineral formations that block stuff. Minerals should never block stuff! EVAR. I neglected to mention it because there were more pressing problems, such as the size of your mains and, for that matter, the size of the maps themselves - in general, they're pretty Terran-oriented because they're rather tight - park siege tanks here, a few there, one or two here and all your base are belong to me. Then I can expand and take you out almost at leisure.
Uh... You can build turrets behind every line on the map except the golds.

Outline where you're talking about, or something.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jul 11 2010, 11:10 am by DevliN. Reason: Added double-post text.



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Jul 11 2010, 12:02 pm 13Stallion Post #12



This map is unplayable for PvZ. how is it possible for P to defend against speedlings properly? there are 2 open entrances to the main AND a third blocked by rocks so yea.......

also the mineral placement at the mains in awkward.

You should do what imagodeo said and move the main to the nat and remove the back ramp there. that would make it much more playable.



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Jul 11 2010, 4:32 pm Syphon Post #13



Quote from 13Stallion
This map is unplayable for PvZ. how is it possible for P to defend against speedlings properly? there are 2 open entrances to the main AND a third blocked by rocks so yea.......

also the mineral placement at the mains in awkward.

You should do what imagodeo said and move the main to the nat and remove the back ramp there. that would make it much more playable.

Very. Very easily.

Block one entrance with cannons or tech, use the other one normally. Tonnes of maps have more than one entrance.



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Jul 11 2010, 7:33 pm ImagoDeo Post #14



Quote from Syphon
Quote from Kimaru2
How did you make the map perfectly symmetrical? The mirror tool only works for rectangular selections. You mirrored it on a angle. Isn't there an XY tool like in SCM Draft?

Made the bottom, copied it, flipped it 180, pasted it.

Quote from ImagoDeo
It's actually kind of ridiculous. This is what most people call 'turret room' and it's very very important on maps. That's another thing I've been noticing about your maps - little or no turret room, or very very weird mineral formations that block stuff. Minerals should never block stuff! EVAR. I neglected to mention it because there were more pressing problems, such as the size of your mains and, for that matter, the size of the maps themselves - in general, they're pretty Terran-oriented because they're rather tight - park siege tanks here, a few there, one or two here and all your base are belong to me. Then I can expand and take you out almost at leisure.

Uh... You can build turrets behind every line on the map except the golds.

Outline where you're talking about, or something.



Planting about three or four tanks at each location and pushing with infantry would get me into a very solid position within ten minutes in a 1v1. I'd have no trouble whatsoever taking two expansions and then I could harass, deny, and steamroll. :/

I think one big problem is that you're not using the right map size. Next time try something bigger with a similar layout to this. Also, you're right, some maps have two entrances - but none have three, and the ones that have two so far have rocks blocking one. Keep that in mind next time.

Turret room doesn't necessarily have to be just for turrets. Units move around behind mineral lines a lot, too. If a zerg player can't send zerglings back behind a mineral line to kill reapers, you have a serious problem. And if a terran can drop three tanks, siege them, and not have to worry about losing them, you've got an even more serious problem.



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Jul 11 2010, 11:19 pm Syphon Post #15



Quote from ImagoDeo


Planting about three or four tanks at each location and pushing with infantry would get me into a very solid position within ten minutes in a 1v1. I'd have no trouble whatsoever taking two expansions and then I could harass, deny, and steamroll. :/

I think one big problem is that you're not using the right map size. Next time try something bigger with a similar layout to this. Also, you're right, some maps have two entrances - but none have three, and the ones that have two so far have rocks blocking one. Keep that in mind next time.

Turret room doesn't necessarily have to be just for turrets. Units move around behind mineral lines a lot, too. If a zerg player can't send zerglings back behind a mineral line to kill reapers, you have a serious problem. And if a terran can drop three tanks, siege them, and not have to worry about losing them, you've got an even more serious problem.

Are you playing people that never, ever push out? You couldn't do that to any reasonable player.

And units can easily get behind those minerals, I don't know why you think they can't.



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Jul 12 2010, 1:10 am 13Stallion Post #16



Quote from Syphon
Quote from 13Stallion
This map is unplayable for PvZ. how is it possible for P to defend against speedlings properly? there are 2 open entrances to the main AND a third blocked by rocks so yea.......

also the mineral placement at the mains in awkward.

You should do what imagodeo said and move the main to the nat and remove the back ramp there. that would make it much more playable.

Very. Very easily.

Block one entrance with cannons or tech, use the other one normally. Tonnes of maps have more than one entrance.

Your map has 3 entrances, 2 open 1 blocked. ALL other maps have ONE entrance to the main and some have a second entrance with destructible rocks. The destructible rocks can hold long enough to prevent an early game imbalance.

You can't just block 1 ramp with cannons/tech and use the other normally...... I don't even know what to say about this comment... Zerg will break your wall without you being able to do anything about it.



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