Staredit Network > Forums > SC2 Melee > Topic: (2)Raven Hole
(2)Raven Hole
Jun 13 2010, 3:32 am
By: UnholyUrine  

Jun 13 2010, 3:32 am UnholyUrine Post #1









Okay. I took me a hell long time to do this =_='' .. but I'm really, REALLY glad I figured out how to copy and flip terrains. Saved me half the time at least.

-This map is Raven Hole. The general concept is that there is high yield minerals in the middle that can be accessed by destroying the rocks into it. However, this also puts your own base in jeopardy.
-So far, the balance problem that I've been trying to fix are the cliff-climbing units, such as reapers, collossi, and stalkers, as these units cut down the travel distance between the two bases by a ton. This puts zerg players in a disadvantage...
-Another important aspect is the placement of those seeing-eye temples. They're put there such that if you can get control of it, you would be able to see into your opponent's natural. I'm not sure if this is imbalanced or not, but since it's a matter of area control, I feel that all races should be somewhat equal.
-Note that I've put doodads on the ledges in order to prevent Tank Holes.
-Another thing to note are the lava ledges that "curtains" that lil part of the terran at the corner of each main base. Proxy Pylons/Nydus there ^.^
-The island expo has a mineral field containing 1 resource. This is to stop terran players from floating there and having this advantage before others can build transports to expo.
-Also, the textures are "smudged" into others to create sort of a rotting effect.. but trust me, it looks bad in certain areas in game D: .. lols..

Funny thing I've found is that Stalkers are able to blink onto the base jumping over the crevice and the cliff.. but this can only be done if the player has had vision there before. Reapers and collossi wouldn't be able to climb up there with or without vision.

Feel free to make some suggestions/bash it :D

Post has been edited 3 time(s), last time on Jun 13 2010, 4:01 am by UnholyUrine.



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Jun 13 2010, 3:42 am Biophysicist Post #2



Quote
-The island expo has a mineral field containing 1 resource. This is to stop terran players from floating there and having this advantage before others can build transports to expo.
Command Centers can carry SCVs now, so they could just float some over in a CC and mine it.



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Jun 13 2010, 3:52 am UnholyUrine Post #3



No they won't even be able to land the CC

EDIT: lol well they SHOULDN't be.. but thanks for saying that, cause I found some areas where they can... Fix'd

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jun 13 2010, 4:05 am by UnholyUrine.



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Jun 13 2010, 5:26 am Valug Post #4



You can load and unload SCVs while the CC is floating, you can't block an expansion with minerals anymore.

The first thing I noticed is that the rush distance is EXTREMELY long. I went in game and tested it and it takes a scouting scv 96 seconds to go base to base. To give you an example, Desert Oasis is 79 seconds. This extremely long rush distance gives a huge advantage to a zerg player, not to mention a easy to defend third. (They share a narrow area between them.)

However, on the other hand, the rush distance for reapers is extremely short. Even shorter then Desert Oasis. A protoss player would have it extremely hard on this map verses a reaper rushing terran. The distances are so close that it might as well be a proxy reaper, but the terran gets none of the side effects of going proxy reaper, its completely safe.

I honestly dislike the connecting backdoors into the middle. Your main base usually ends up getting pretty full by endgame and having to move your units through your base all the time is a chore. I also think its too easy to secure the middle and push into the other persons base, especially for a mech terran player.

The areas in the circle from 12 to 3 and 6 to 9 seem boring. Its just a big open area with not much going on. It does not seem as big in the editor, but you can tell in game. This may be a prime place to add more expansions, since there is not much going on there.

There are some cosmetic issues at the 11 and 5 o'clock expansions, especially at the 5 o'clock. The blending needs to be fixed.

I don't know why everyone on SEN seems to do this, but it looks terrible when your terrain ends at the playable field. There is a reason why you can add terrain past it, so the map doesn't just end into blackness.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jun 13 2010, 5:50 am by Valug.



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Jun 13 2010, 6:48 am UnholyUrine Post #5



You can ?? I didn't know that you can add terrain.. well i'll try that D:

Yeah I was worried about the rushing distance being too long, while the distance in the middle being too short...
Oh wells... I spent more time on this than I thought I would :P

Quote
I honestly dislike the connecting backdoors into the middle. Your main base usually ends up getting pretty full by endgame and having to move your units through your base all the time is a chore. I also think its too easy to secure the middle and push into the other persons base, especially for a mech terran player.
I'm not too sure about this being a problem...

I'm also not sure which parts you were talking about.. but it's late.. so i'll figure this out later



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Jun 13 2010, 4:27 pm Valug Post #6



Quote from UnholyUrine
You can ?? I didn't know that you can add terrain.. well i'll try that D:

Yeah I was worried about the rushing distance being too long, while the distance in the middle being too short...
Oh wells... I spent more time on this than I thought I would :P

Quote
I honestly dislike the connecting backdoors into the middle. Your main base usually ends up getting pretty full by endgame and having to move your units through your base all the time is a chore. I also think its too easy to secure the middle and push into the other persons base, especially for a mech terran player.
I'm not too sure about this being a problem...

I'm also not sure which parts you were talking about.. but it's late.. so i'll figure this out later

From a balance standpoint I really don't think it will be a problem, but I think it makes the rest of the map unimportant once it gets opened up. If you ever attempted to attack the long way after midgame and it gets scouted, you could get counter attacked through the middle and still make it back in time to defend your base. This again leads back to the rush distance problem.

Take for example a terran mech player, he could lock down the middle no problem, you would not be able to attack that way, so you take the long way. The mech player scouts you and pushes through the middle. If you continue the attack your base is dead, if you turn back, he can get out right before you get there and not lose anything. If you decide to never attack the mech player, he can slowly push into your base and take the map.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jun 13 2010, 4:52 pm by Valug.



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Jun 13 2010, 5:38 pm UnholyUrine Post #7



Ahh I c...

Hmm ... I'm not too sure what I can do besides scrap this concept D:

I can add a thin layer of lava around the middle to stop proxy reapers...
but this doesn't solve the Rush distance to Middle way distance ratio imbalance.
...
Any suggestions? ..

I could bulge the map up a bit, making the middle distance bigger, tho this'd also make rushing distance bigger..... or maybe connect to the middle via 12/6 o'clock paths?


Besides all this, I'm pretty proud of what I've done :P heheh
tho it may be imbalanced, at least I tried to create a new concept. D:



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Jun 13 2010, 8:42 pm Dem0n Post #8

ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

How to copy/flip terrain? :dontgetit:




Jun 13 2010, 10:07 pm ImagoDeo Post #9



Quote from name:Dem0nS1ayer
How to copy/flip terrain? :dontgetit:
Please.

Also, I've been working with the editor some myself, and I can tell you - it's not hard to make the sides of the map pretty. Just do some random cliffs, modify the height, use the noise tool, spread lava over it and you're good. Add some texturing to make it nicer.

One key thing is to use light textures on points of interest, especially ramps into mains. It's extremely hard to see in the fog of war before you explore there if the texture is dark.



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Jun 13 2010, 10:50 pm Aristocrat Post #10



Note to 180shotblock: This is the kind of map that you should try to make. Not square maps with 3x3 grid layout and random neutrals.

UU: looks great, but has some distance problems. Use the launcher and play AI to get a feel for how players may mess with the map?

P.S. Just block expansion with a small destructible?



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Jun 14 2010, 5:28 am UnholyUrine Post #11



All you have to do to flip a piece of terrain is this...

Go to selection mode (space)
Highlight the terrain you want to copy and flip
Ctrl+C
Ctrl+V
Alt+. (or i think it's edit - flip - horizontal)
Alt+, (flip verticle)
click

I'd have to look up the hotkeys again.. and which tab it belongs to :P...


I want to test with the AI.. but it keeps giving me this error message saying "Script error" ..
all the computer does is mine and try to move its workers away when I attack it..
Anyone know what's the problem?

I'm planning to make the middle accessible through the mid
I'm also going to try to eliminate reaper jumping through the middle by adding a layer of lava.. or semething.
Hopefully this'd solve the distance problem + reaper OP'ness

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jun 14 2010, 5:35 am by UnholyUrine.



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Jun 14 2010, 5:41 pm Valug Post #12



Opening up the middle does not make the rush distance any smaller, you could however reposition the natural's entrance so it faces towards the new middle entrance. (Like make the top nat open at 3' instead of 10' and the bottom open at 9' instead of 5' so they are kinda connected to where the connect to the middle is.)



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Jun 17 2010, 1:34 am PunWisp Post #13



The terrain itself still needs some work, try mixing and blending tiles, it will make your terrain look a lot better. Single tile terrain sections is meh. This is of course, if you want your map to be more appealing, and good looking :)



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Jun 17 2010, 3:15 am UnholyUrine Post #14



True..
I should experiment with those texture blends more. :P



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