Staredit Network > Forums > SC2 Melee > Topic: NEW MAP!...Battle Royale!
NEW MAP!...Battle Royale!
Jun 6 2010, 9:22 pm
By: 180shotblock  

Jun 6 2010, 9:22 pm 180shotblock Post #1



this is a custom melee map, took me a couple hrs to make, being that its pretty dam near perfectly balanced and nearly mirrored sides. I think its a nice new twist to a team map because of the center player's position and the watch towers along with the 4 high yield options, 6 high yield locations, 2 of the locations fit 2 CC/Nex/Hat. I still havnt even played the map could use some testers to help, and suggestions would be nice :) also, i dont know if the idea i implemented in the middle of the map will work or not yet because i havnt gotten to test it yet hah... i have the map preview attached, im publishing on B.net

could some 1 tell me how to make it so the images just show instead of having to be downloaded

ITS ON B.NET!!!!! its name is Battle Royale v0.01

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Post has been edited 7 time(s), last time on Jun 7 2010, 2:28 am by 180shotblock.



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Jun 6 2010, 10:08 pm Ahli Post #2

I do stuff and thingies... Try widening and reducing the number of small nooks and crannies to correct the problem.

is this map a melee map?
We have an own forum for melee.
If yes, simply report this topic to be moved there.




Jun 6 2010, 10:14 pm ImagoDeo Post #3



Quote from 180shotblock
took me a couple hrs to make


Not nearly long enough, bro. You've got a long ways to go. Terran can abuse siege tanks so easily that it's not even funny. And on top of that the map itself ain't very pretty. It looks very unnatural. Next time try XY symmetry, or rotational symmetry. On second thought don't, because if this took you a few hours that would take you days to figure out.



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Jun 7 2010, 10:56 pm 180shotblock Post #4



i added extra files that show the smaller details you cant see with the overall map i think... and what you were saying about the whole abusing tanks thing can go either way... the vision blockers around the watch towers make it so that no one knows if you can see them unless they have it or a detector, or some burrowed/cloaked unit, in part that makes people use detectors, i made this map so that every unit could be used, there is no ONE good strategy and you have to work as a team otherwise it is easy to fall behind and easy to be pushed... and by pushed i mean that you could potentially defense in the other person's area and basically own 2/3 of the map, it makes people think and act quick because they have exactly the same advantages and disadvantages and they have to use them wisely... every part of this map can be defensed, but only a good defense will stop an attack because of the larger ramps, but at the same time, if your team is going defense, its the middle person's job to either quick expo or help, the lowered middle area idea that i implemented is a lower ground area but has smoke-line of sight blockers all inside the area, the idea behind it being that the smoke blocks the upper ground sight and forces other people to use either a detector or air unit to see over it and really see if theres sumthin funny goin on inside haha, and in with that rich middle area are watch towers so that you can see whats going on outside without having that extra flying unit or detector around, and the middle high yield expo area can house 4 players or 1... but there are 2 outer high yield expos on the top and bottom of the map without watch towers and there are ramps going into the area, the destructible rocks blocking the middle paths across is to increase the rush distance and allow rush-rush, defense-rush, rush-defense, defense-defense... if you dont like that then dont play it but i think that it will be a fun map...

Im still having some bugs with uploading to b.net but i did get 1 version to upload but i couldnt make it public and cant figure out why so id really appreciate it if some 1 who knows how to do the variant definitions and stuff like that would PM me and we can partner up and add you to the map's makers... im hoping that this map will get good feedback.
I would also like to formally invite any body that would like to help me test the map and ideas in the map to PM me.



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Jun 7 2010, 11:09 pm ImagoDeo Post #5



Quote from 180shotblock
it makes people think and act quick because they have exactly the same advantages and disadvantages.

Six words: there are different races in StarCraft.



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Jun 8 2010, 3:59 am UnholyUrine Post #6



Quote

Eewwww.. This is just a money map, bud.
Lrn2 melee map. Here's a guide - http://www.staredit.net/topic/11236/
This guide tells you what things to be aware of while melee mapping back in SC1.
While things have change, a lot of the concepts are still important.

The main problem with This map is that it lacks any sort of concept. gg'd, back to the drawing board bud.

BTW, Sorry if we sound harsh. I know it's a lot harder to make a good melee map in sc2 right now due to it's Isom-inadequacy + no symmetrical terraining capabilities... Our SC1 melee maps are judged quite critically, so we tend to carry on with tradition. Don't take anything too seriously.
Still, tho.. this map sux XD .. needs a freaking concept.
Scrap, and redo.

Here's an example of what a good map, with a concept, looks like (even tho it's an sc1 port)




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Jun 9 2010, 6:57 am 180shotblock Post #7



rofl, ok... seriously, this is my first map ever, and besides that, when i said that every body has the same adv and dis-adv i was just talking about the battle field, any one that means to say that each race has the same adv and dis-adv is mentally ill...

to be honest, i didnt want a fancy map, and yes somewhat of a money map, and like i said... I would like suggestions and constructive criticism, not to be told to scrap it... tell me how to make it better... theres a fine line between being A$$H0!3$ and being harsh!



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Jun 9 2010, 7:02 pm ImagoDeo Post #8



Quote from 180shotblock
tell me how to make it better...
  • Redo the whole thing.
  • Come up with some kind of real concept - why should people play this instead of Araken Citadel? What quirk(s) does it have that make it actually worth playing over other maps? (Currently none.)
  • Make it look more natural. Nobody really likes playing a map with all straight lines, unless it's something like Metalopolis, which is intended to look like a cityscape. Use curves. Change the textures within the same zone, so that players don't get tired eyes.
  • Use reference points to help while you build the map. It's pretty simple - if you use the grid, you can put a 1x1 square of terrain at a particular point, and then put another one at the same point on the other side of the map.
  • Plan the map. Use paper and a pencil - graphing paper helps a lot. Make sure to keep an eye on the boundaries, too:
    • Units cannot move past the blue boundary.
    • Buildings cannot be placed past the yellow boundary.
  • Balance: Try to think where reapers and colossi can go. Try to think how players should defend against them. Try to think where players can sneak in a warp prism, or do a doom drop. Look at it from a gameplay perspective; how can mutalisks use the terrain to outrun ground units? Where can stalkers go that might make them overpowered? Where are there ledges that siege tanks can be parked on? How easy to use are the chokepoints? Can terran wall off effectively? Can protoss use force fields effectively? Check the rushing distance - would 7pool win all the time? Would one particular strategy be impossible to beat? As it is, it's nearly impossible for a terran player to wall off on the map that you have. The ramp comes down into the base - that's almost always a bad thing. The natural is extremely exposed. Two of the bases have two ramps whereas the other four only have one. The center area looks too easy to turtle in. Think about these things before you just slap some terrain together.




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Jun 9 2010, 11:12 pm 180shotblock Post #9



~ ImagoDeo, THANK YOU! you are the first person who besides redoing the whole thing, maybe ill just turn it into a different style map... I did actually put thought into where things were placed such as the destructible rocks, watch towers, ramps and line of sight blockers. I do know however that stuff needs to be changed around terrain and unit wise.

~ Aristocrat, i had no idea that there was a previous map with the same name, and yea thats a pretty map :P... also, im not sure what your problem is, maybe your ego is just way too big for you to control, i feel sorry for you because you don't seem to be able to actually help any one, just take shots at other people's ideas. You seem unable to give any sort of constructive criticism... being a part of HCM you should be able to help out new mappers, not just be a total tool

~ UnholyUrine, thanks for giving me a respectable response

I would still like some ideas on how to change my current map around... things to add, remove, move, resource location/expansion ideas... please dont tell me to scrap it any more because im not going to



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Jun 9 2010, 11:36 pm ImagoDeo Post #10



Quote from 180shotblock
~ ImagoDeo, THANK YOU! you are the first person who besides redoing the whole thing, maybe ill just turn it into a different style map... I did actually put thought into where things were placed such as the destructible rocks, watch towers, ramps and line of sight blockers. I do know however that stuff needs to be changed around terrain and unit wise.

I would still like some ideas on how to change my current map around... things to add, remove, move, resource location/expansion ideas... please dont tell me to scrap it any more because im not going to

My sincere apologies, but there's nothing here that I can see that could possibly be implemented into a new, balanced map. Scrapping it is the only option. You can start with the same basic layout - as in, three bases on the east and three on the west, each seperate - but other than that, there's nothing here that you should put into a melee map. If I attempted to modify it and make it semi-balanced (I don't pretend to be an SC2 melee guru), it wouldn't look a thing like what it does now.



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Jun 9 2010, 11:40 pm Biophysicist Post #11



Quote
~ Aristocrat, i had no idea that there was a previous map with the same name, and yea thats a pretty map :P ... also, im not sure what your problem is, maybe your ego is just way too big for you to control, i feel sorry for you because you don't seem to be able to actually help any one, just take shots at other people's ideas. You seem unable to give any sort of constructive criticism... being a part of HCM you should be able to help out new mappers, not just be a total tool
Sorry to sound harsh, but you're the one at fault here. He's telling you to scrap the map, which is really the only thing I can see to do. Well, it might be possible to keep the same map but add doodads, destructables, Watchtowers, and better terrain, and make it balanced... Oh wait, that would be scrapping it. Anyway, there's no shame in scrapping a project. When I'm programming and write a bad piece of code, then see a better way to do it, I delete the code and rewrite it. Melee and UMS mappers scrap projects all the time.

Also, UnholyUrine's response was more disrespectful than Aristocrat's...



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Jun 9 2010, 11:44 pm Aristocrat Post #12



Quote from 180shotblock
~ Aristocrat, i had no idea that there was a previous map with the same name, and yea thats a pretty map :P... also, im not sure what your problem is, maybe your ego is just way too big for you to control, i feel sorry for you because you don't seem to be able to actually help any one, just take shots at other people's ideas. You seem unable to give any sort of constructive criticism... being a part of HCM you should be able to help out new mappers, not just be a total tool

I'll be frank here:
-Your map demonstrates no "idea" whatsoever. It has square bases, laid out in a square formation, with no concept besides that of a generic map. Heck, its layout is just like "FA$TE$T PO$$IBLE MAP": empty bases, laid out in a 3x3 grid formation, so my analogy is completely valid.
-You have generic terrain, ugly straight lines, rock destructibles and towers/los blockers thrown around randomly with no consideration for strategic use in a melee map. This demonstrates a lack of effort on your part, and we are obliged to put no more than that amount of effort into our replies; after all, if you don't care about your own map, why should we spend time helping you?
-"Lol this is my first map ever so I'm like, entitled to excuses for making egregious errors and not admitting them" <- Not acceptable.
-"Plz stop telling me what to do cuz I'm not going to" <- Not acceptable either. When you ask for advice you shouldn't outright reject it out of pride.
-I would have been nicer, but you came across as a contrarian and a newb who thinks he knows better than everyone else in your first reply. (Also, you're pretty much forcing people to inconveniently download images onto their hard drive before commenting. People tend to get pissed when that happens.) Plus, what I said is true; did it take you more than 10 minutes to make this?

P.S.
-Battle Royale is known as one of the most imbalanced proleague maps in the history of BW; ironic that your map has the same name.

Quote
being a part of HCM you should be able to help out new mappers, not just be a total tool

Did you seriously just call the clan founder a total tool? :lol:



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Jun 9 2010, 11:53 pm ImagoDeo Post #13



Quote from Aristocrat
did it take you more than 10 minutes to make this?

*ahem*

Quote from 180shotblock
took me a couple hrs to make

which I think is kinda sad, really, but whatever.

180, this is the first SC2 melee map I ever made:



Unfortunately, it was created when I still had a lot to learn about the editor. Thus, it's in the wrong perspective and is obviously skewed if you look at it along a diagonal line down the middle. However, it demonstrates what I was getting at. The northern path, past the 3rds and over that hill, is the early rushing path. I intentionally made it long to prevent zerg 7pooling from being too powerful on this map. There are two shorter paths, one over the center ridge with a watch tower on it, and one through the high-yield, both of which are blocked by rocks. The main base is on a cliff, with the natural right in front of it. Of course, as I said, I still had a lot to learn about the editor and all, but it wasn't half bad for a first try. Do you see what we're getting at?



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Jun 10 2010, 1:02 am PunWisp Post #14



And how exactly is it sad? Making a map where on this design each side is suppose to be perfect in equality, doesn't take 2 seconds, infact it takes quite a while, including when doing everything manually, so no, its not sad.

And to point out, the bottom part of the map is bigger then the top part of the map. So the bottom bases have more space then the top bases.

Its almost 100% equal :P


And guys, what you need to understand is a melee map doesn't HAVE[b] to look natural...

You guys make it sound like every melee map HAS to look natural, HAS to look really pretty. Maps like this aren't bad, and can be fun. Looks aren't everything. Just because someone makes a map with jungle tiles doesnt mean they HAVE to make it look like a jungle. Gameplay matters more than looks.



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Jun 10 2010, 1:53 am Biophysicist Post #15



Quote
And how exactly is it sad? Making a map where on this design each side is suppose to be perfect in equality, doesn't take 2 seconds, infact it takes quite a while, including when doing everything manually, so no, its not sad.

And to point out, the bottom part of the map is bigger then the top part of the map. So the bottom bases have more space then the top bases.

Its almost 100% equal :P
It's not perfect or equal. As was previously said, the middle bases are a lot weaker due to the two ramps. That's the most obvious imbalance; others could probably be found.

Quote
And guys, what you need to understand is a melee map doesn't HAVE[b] to look natural...

You guys make it sound like every melee map HAS to look natural, HAS to look really pretty. Maps like this aren't bad, and can be fun. Looks aren't everything. Just because someone makes a map with jungle tiles doesnt mean they HAVE to make it look like a jungle. Gameplay matters more than looks.
Yah, well, looks are still important.



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Jun 10 2010, 1:59 am PunWisp Post #16



As can be seen this map wasn't designed to look beautiful in looks :P



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Jun 10 2010, 2:21 am ImagoDeo Post #17



Quote from PunWisp
As can be seen this map wasn't designed to look beautiful in looks :P

Very true. In fact, it was hardly "designed" at all. That's the main problem I have with it.



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Jun 10 2010, 3:07 am PunWisp Post #18



He seemed to trying to go with a simple concept as his first map, which isn't too bad. Of course, gameplay wise the terrain would need to be altered, atm it offers too many advantages for some races.



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Jun 10 2010, 3:53 am Aristocrat Post #19



Quote from PunWisp
He seemed to trying to go with a simple concept as his first map, which isn't too bad. Of course, gameplay wise the terrain would need to be altered, atm it offers too many advantages for some races.

On the bright side, mirror matches can be balanced if you spawn across from each other >_>



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Jun 10 2010, 5:57 am UnholyUrine Post #20



Quote
Also, UnholyUrine's response was more disrespectful than Aristocrat's...

Lawls you're all so serious :P
I'm just getting him used to the fact that people will criticize him that way.
Rather than using long and boring words, I've basically said the things that every single one of you have said: "No concept, Redo"

anways, at the risk of going offtopic.

No Concept, Redo


Moreover, I hate the sc2 map editor D:... the terraining is so .... ... flickery? .. I don't know. Main point is, I understand how much time you've put into this map. But, as long as a map have no concept, there really isn't anyway to rescue it. You're better off redoing because it'd most likely save you more time.



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