in 2.46 and 2.47 (maybe in previous versions, i didn't pay attention) :

when hybrid are still alive, the ghosts are cloaked but don't do anything when they are not enemies. And they still don't do anything the next rounds. They just stay cloaked and turn over the hybrid.

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying. Are you saying that when ghosts are cloaked, they won't attack anything?

That's normal SC behaviour and there's nothing I can do about it. Cloaked ghosts will only fire their weapons at enemies that have attacked them personally, or enemies that they have cast lockdown on. This is more noticable early in the game when there fewer (or no) detectors around, whereas later on ghosts will be attacked and therefore retaliate against their attackers.

I think I should have made the robotics bay cost $280 instead of $320, because at the moment 2 robotics bays are $640, so if you wanted anti-air you'd be better off just building a stargate for $640 instead.

True.

And there is not a trigger to order an unit to hold position. Just move a unit at location X to location X but it's not the same.

Hum, and order ghost to attack hybrid? Or load them to a temporary bunker?

Or put a detector in middle for everybody during the hybrid fight.

Lurker are so easy do to at begin, and cost so much to counter, almost 800 mineral for com sat (academy = CC add on).

Yip, lurkers are a tricky one. The AI for lurkers is quite terrible and doesn't work very well later on. So if lurkers are to be in the game at all, they need to be early-mid game units. They also take forever to burrow and the AI is stupid and unburrows them a lot, so they need to have high-ish HP and also reasonable damage once they do actually manage to burrow. The other problem is that Zerg doesn't seem to have as many buildings available as terran and protoss do and their tech tree is much flatter. I have considered putting queens onto the lair and moving lurkers to the queens nest and putting a cap on them; that would let me control their prices a lot better. I guess as queens nest is required to get to hive it would still make the queen research available.

I think being worried about ghosts at the start of the game is nothing to stress over though - ghosts just aren't good units at the start of the game. Don't mass them, get something else.

Just played a game where I saw the nuke BC hit an infested terran instead of the temple, so still got to fix that up (although I did try to put in triggers to account for this already, obviously not quite perfect).

Are some upgrades shared to the opposite team?

I played a 2v2

Toss + Terran (me) vs 2 Terran.

I build an academy and the upgrade for marine range was already done.

Marine Range is removed from being researchable in 2.47. Marines will never use it, but War Pigs will get it free from the start. This, along with increasing the price of stim to $345, was to help balance marines more. Because marines were very very powerful. Now they're less so. War Pigs got +1 dmg to 13 and goliaths got +1 to 14 and -10 hp and +1 armor to make them cope better vs lings and zealots etc.

Mind Control as cast by DA's will steal any upgrades from units it is cast on (these will be shared back to all human players the next time any player on the team spawns that unit). Also stealing units from enemy players as in Divine Judgement (which everyone calls MC), Infestation and Nuke will steal the upgrades.

I found a bug, where i have 1 building for immortals, but there are 4 on the field.

Attachments:

That's not a bug. Green has 3.66 immortal counters. If you read the latest patch notes (or click on the robo support bay) you'll see it counts as 1 colossus / 1 immortal.

They are spawning with 0 shields though

Considering they have 0 shields and 225 hp, that would be expected behaviour.

this is what I did immediately after reading Lanthanide's reply lol.

I'm actually pretty happy with where the balance is now. A few changes I'm considering:

• Siege tank -5 dmg in mobile mode to 40, +10 in sieged mode to 85. +15 hp in sieged mode to 135.
  
• -1 mothership armor to 16
  
• -2 scout AA damage to 30
  
• Play around with giving Immortals 1 shield and set to 100?% every trigger cycle (every 2 frames), probably reduce base armor to 4 from 5. This simulates the 'hardened shields' from SC2 more and effectively gives them 4 extra armor against the first hit. Even if I don't make the shields permanent I'll probably still give them 1 or 5 shield points, just so the HP display above the unit doesn't have a full blue bar as it looks a bit funky at the moment.
  
• Void Ray shield pulse back to 12 instead of 8: they don't seem to be much stronger vs marines or hydras with the 2 armor.
  
• Robotics bay -$50 to $270, Void Ray +$20 to $420. Nerf observer, probably down to 30/30 shields/hp from current 40/40, just to make them die more often and encourage people to build more robotics bays.
  
• Consider making the insta-spawn cost $300 * # of mines. So it would cost $1800 with 6 mines, $1200 with 4 mines and $600 with 2 mines. Costs $300 even with 0 mines.
  

Someone commented that siege tanks are actually stronger without researching siege. Looking on the stats I see they do explosive damage in either mode, and at the moment the DPS is higher in mobile mode that it is in siege mode. Considering they lose HP, they often get stuck in siege mode and the splash can hurt your own units, evening this DPS out will help.

Change for insta-spawn is to see if we might get it used earlier in the game. Probably around the 3-4 mine mark, but I think $900-1200 might still be too expensive here. A nice simple formula is desirable and I don't really want to go much lower than the current $1750 cost. I could add a mineral stack with the name "Current insta-spawn cost" and place it near the beacon over the water so it's un-minable and update the resource amount with the current cost if we end up with anything slightly strange. Ideally don't want to do this though as it would contribute further towards map max (every unit counts!). Another possibility is to add 100 per number of the mine, eg 100 for 1, +200 for 2nd, +300 for 3rd, +400 for 4th, +500 and +600. This would result in 100/300/600/1000/1500/2100. In particular I think the 1500 to 2100 gap makes it into a bit of a punishment to use it later.

No prob, just looked like an unintended bug...


The DPS is higher but the trade off is that mobile tanks die way faster!! Sieged tanks also tear down the resource silo faster than anything else...


That's a great idea as part of the strategy is to avoid your spawn becoming wiped out by the opponent's specials makes it worth more to use early.


Another possible bug?? Warp Prism picks up Reavers and drops them off immobilized and unable to immediately move...

Debatable. The HP difference is quite large, and sieged tanks are sitting ducks for lings and DTs in particular. I often see my DTs shred a lot of sieged tanks, even if there are detectors around. Once the front lines are breached, any sieged tanks are easy prey, while mobile tanks will actually make up the front lines themselves and add a nice HP boost to the generally low HP terran troops. Sieged tanks also clog up the flow of reinforcements and I'd have to say that's overall going to be a detriment.

Well reavers actually do more damage per shot and have a lot more HP and armor although they shoot slower (minimum cooldown is still lower than a sieged tank though). Also because of the DPS difference, unsieged tanks actually do more DPS to the silo than sieged ones do, even accounting for the 10 armor.

What pricing system do you like more, $300 per mine or something else?

Nothing I can do about it. I'd like it if I could disable the shuttle from being able to pick up units, but I can't. There's no (realistic) way for me to control what happens to the specific units that have just left the shuttle.

So this is why stf-sleepy always told me to go for unsieged tanks when my allies would allow it. I always won with them more often than sieged too. Only weakness is when going for a tvt unsieged tanks vs sieged unsieged often can't even reach the sieged tanks because of so many tanks on the field.

Interesting, never knew he suggested that.

I think that mobile will continue to be strong after these changes, but the difference between them should be less.

Anything that will discourage beginners from using it too early.... Maybe 1 gas minimum? 500 per gas built would be OK as it would max out at half of the Terran special cost.

Also, can you prevent booming during the first 5 minutes??

Thanks

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 4 2012, 12:04 am by Rivalz.

Yeah, I would probably put a 1 gas minimum on it. I don't think too many noobs would do it though: unlike booms which any noob can just click on and move to the beacon, picking up the powerup requires a lot more understanding of what's going on. When I first introduced it lots of experienced players had no idea how to use it, for example.

I don't want it to cost significantly more than the current price of $1750 (or initial price of $2000). I think costing $3000 would just be too much. And I don't think anyone would save up $1500 to use it when they had 3 gas, and at $2000 for 4 gas its already more expensive than it is currently - clearly this wouldn't really encourage people to use it earlier, which is the goal of this idea.

As for booming in the first 5 minutes - no, sometimes this is a valid thing to do. Most times it's not, but a few times it is. It's also hard to communicate to players - the first you find out about it is when you try to do it and it doesn't work.

I have been playing 2.47... Terran is absolute garbage. They really don't have a fighting chance against a Protoss or Zerg player who knows what they are doing. The Terran army has always been the underdog late in the game (vs. mass corsair or zerg air), NOW they are horrible early game as well.

Agreed.
mass Marines vs Mass lings = No win even with medics//goliath help.