ZvT Advice!
Apr 10 2010, 10:33 pm
By: DeM)s.  

Apr 10 2010, 10:33 pm DeM)s. Post #1



So I do play melee and yes I do play as Zerg and yes I have no idea what to do against Terran!!
Actually I kinda do :blush:

What I do know: (and it's not much)
Usually Fast Expo against T
M&M's = Lurks
Watch out for the bunker rush
Get Defilers as most of Terran units are ranged

What I want to know:
Vults&Tanks.. how to counter?
Any specific BO's?
Anything else I missed or didn't mention because my brain is dead :P



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Apr 11 2010, 12:21 am BeDazed Post #2



I'm going to assume you probably know the basics.
Vults&Tanks = Mutalings
Usually, if you harass fast factory T with mutas, you can take the whole map and just go straight to gaurdians. Thats why Ts don't do mech as a standard BO against Z, just like how they don't do infantry as standard BO against toss.
List of BOs
2 hatch fast muta
3 hatch lings
3 hatch mutalinglurker
Then its usually micro battle and battle of the wits.



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Apr 11 2010, 2:10 am DeM)s. Post #3



Thank you In Daze :D
That helped.



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Apr 11 2010, 1:06 pm Super Duper Post #4



12Hatch opener (You are trying to get a fast economy, but are vulnerable to a bunker rush).
9 - Overlord
12 - Hatchery at Nat
11* - Pool

*It can be 11 or 12. 11 is more safe, but it cuts a drone.

In the event you get bunker rushed, use your zerglings to attack the SCV making the bunker. If you have no zerglings :wtfage: then pull 6 drones off the mineral line to delay the terran as much as possible. With good enough micro, your drones can repel the terran force. Even if all those 6 drones die, you are then tied with him economically, because, think about it. He has to disrupt his Build Order and pull 7 SCVs off his line, 2 of which may die.

A standard followup from a 12hatch, 11pool is this:

13 - Hatchery
@100% Spawning Pool - 2-6 Zerglings
16 - Overlord
16 - Extractor
@100 Gas - Lair
NOTE - Make Sunken Colonies as necessary
22-24 - Overlord
@100 Gas - Zergling Speed
@60% Lair - Hydralisk Den
@90% Lair - Expansion Extractor
@100% Lair - Research Lurker/Build Evolution Chamber (+1 carapace when done).
(optional) @100% Lair - Spire
@50% of Lurker research - build 6-9 Hydralisks.
@100% of Lurker research - morph Lurkers.
Spend the rest on Speedlings.

That build order will deal with M&M, since A. you have a better economy than the terran, you can then push out with your lurkers and take an expansion and B. You have lurkers, which can only be killed by tanks. But guess what? You have speedlings, so the tanks are dead.
To deal with Terran Mech (You can recognize terran mech if they send a vulture to your mineral line to harass) then the Build Order is 3 Hatch Muta. Do lots of harass, make 3 sunkens at your natural and ONLY 3 sunkens. Remember, Terran has tanks, so if he sees you build 3 or more sunkens, they can just expand :( . Once you do a lot of muta harass (as much as you can) then transition into Hydraling. Get speed upgrade to deal with tanks, and +! carapace to save yourself from the dreaded goliaths. Try to expand and take the nearest and easiest expansion near you. It doesnt matter if it does not have gas, since you went 3 Hatch Muta you should have a lot of gas left over.

Good Luck.



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Apr 11 2010, 8:47 pm DeM)s. Post #5



Very cool, thanks for the great info Super ^^



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Apr 12 2010, 4:25 am XGenesis Post #6



I have the same problem, but most people say that the thing to do is usually 3 hatch muta to stall until lurkers come out. Contain, expand, and tech to hive. Mutas are for map control. If T is making mass turrets then you have succeeded in obtaining map control. If he doesn't, harass the hell out of him.



None.

Apr 12 2010, 12:41 pm BeDazed Post #7



You can't control the map just with mutas. Usually, theres two methods in countering T's opening. Usually from a 1 rack double cc perspective, T's counter to muta is 4 rack, while 4 rack counter is straight lurker, but straight lurker is countered by a 3 rack fact, and (yeah, the obvious) mutas own 3 rack fact. Usually, if T scouts mutas (which they usually will. Ts usually always have scouting advantage. so its usually Z thats going to match their strategy with T's move.), they go 4 rack. And Z usually goes mutas anyway. If you try and take the map in that state, T will just out right own you, hands down- pumping out so much rines in a few minutes, your mutas will never be able to get them all. In this sense, you will have to stall and save your mutas (losing them will cost you your game, most of the time), keep harassing T so T won't get out before lurks. always have nat defense, however you like it (4 sunk, or 2 sunk 2 creep etcetc- from time to time, you may need 6 sunks if you don't manage to harass much and lose a chunk of your mutas, and your lurk upgrade is nowhere close to being finished.)
Lets say you did manage to get lurks and save your mutas. Then you're in luck, now you have battlefield advantage until T gets sci vessels. This will only last a few minutes at best, so expand and tech to hive. Get a few scourges, and you may be able to get the first vessel that comes out with mutascourge (Thats if T is completely noob or just being plain stupid.) If you managed up to this point, then T will have no expansion that has a ground route. Upgrade overlord speed and check for island expansions. They are usually defenseless.

Also, Zs will never have better economy than Terran after say, pop 20, if both players are playing right. Also, never listen to a person that says lurkers can only be killed by tanks. That is outright wrong. Any decent T will be able to kill up to 7 lurks no problem with scan and marine micro (9s1a2a3a). You won't have field advantage with just lurks and lings. Unless you're playing a horrendously dumb person, incapable of using a mouse.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Apr 12 2010, 12:51 pm by BeDazed.



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[05:43 pm]
Zoan -- NudeRaider
NudeRaider shouted: Zoan yes you can.
oh, yeah you’re right. Then yeah if you use an ai script it should be easy to farm unfinished buildings in some unused area on the map and just move them around, right?
[2019-10-17. : 6:06 am]
NudeRaider -- KrayZee
KrayZee shouted: Voyager7456 Somehow I misread your shout. "Glad I can entertain you in Nude" as if you sent a racy photo, video or something.
nah, he just made a comment that had us laughing very hard.
[2019-10-17. : 6:02 am]
NudeRaider -- Zoan
Zoan shouted: sraw531 you can’t move buildings afaik
yes you can.
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Dem0n -- no
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[2019-10-16. : 4:20 pm]
KrayZee -- Voyager7456
Voyager7456 shouted: Glad I can entertain you Nude
Somehow I misread your shout. "Glad I can entertain you in Nude" as if you sent a racy photo, video or something.
[2019-10-16. : 2:26 pm]
martosss -- Moose
Moose shouted: martosss IIRC, the plan was to go 64-bit only eventually so they're interested in differences between the versions
well I might have found 1 bug for them to fix - some maps load on 32 bit, but not on 64 bit game version
[2019-10-16. : 2:19 pm]
Zoan -- sraw531
sraw531 shouted: I'm pretty sure you would move the building away at some point. When you do so, you can give it to someone else. I was thinking nexi because its possible you could encourage the computer to expand to a specific spot
you can’t move buildings afaik
[2019-10-16. : 10:10 am]
Moose -- martosss
martosss shouted: jjf28 OK, I have 1 more question - are you using 32 bit SC:R or 64 bit ? In game settings there's an option to switch to 32, is it checked? I just tried hosting the map with 64-bit SC:R and it failed... I ticked the option to use 32 bit SC:R => it worked and map was hosted. So I guess the issue still exists for 64 bit SC:R ? I also tried calling a friend and he couldn't see the map when he entered the lobby. Weird, I might have to report this to Blizzard?
IIRC, the plan was to go 64-bit only eventually so they're interested in differences between the versions
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