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[2014-9-01. : 11:40 pm]  Fire_Kame -- the GOP propagates minimal federal oversight in favor of state oversight.[2014-9-01. : 11:39 pm] Zoan -- Sand WraithSand Wraith shouted: Zoan Not as far as I know. "Class" would specifically pertain to material divisions between people, such as who owns land and property, factories, mines, etc. Under communism, these resources are shared collectively, and no one person can call on an authority force (like the police or state -- same thing basically) to enforce their will. But they would have more power than those who aren't leaders, right?[2014-9-01. : 11:39 pm] Jack -- payne don't worry, just an issue of definitions, doesn't affect anything you were saying really. I'm nitpicky at times.[2014-9-01. : 11:39 pm] Jack -- Not even states necessarily, could be as localised as a county or town[2014-9-01. : 11:39 pm] Fire_Kame -- what I'm saying is that it is shooting libertarianism in the foot to say that there should be no government, but XY and Z should be criminalized[2014-9-01. : 11:39 pm]  payne -- JackJack shouted: payne Politics tends to be liberal vs conservative, what you described is a system of government, not a spectrum of thought within that government (aka politics). still not sure where you are coming from[2014-9-01. : 11:39 pm] Sand Wraith -- ZoanZoan shouted: Sand WraithBut wouldn't community leaders be a type of class, which defeats the whole idea of communism? Not as far as I know. "Class" would specifically pertain to material divisions between people, such as who owns land and property, factories, mines, etc. Under communism, these resources are shared collectively, and no one person can call on an authority force (like the police or state -- same thing basically) to enforce their will.[2014-9-01. : 11:38 pm] Fire_Kame -- JackJack shouted: Fire_KameWho says there needs to be a federal government who police those laws? if it is criminalized the federal government must step in.[2014-9-01. : 11:37 pm] payne -- Sand WraithSand Wraith shouted: payne I meant "liberal baggage" as in ideas such as individuality, hedonism, lack of social responsibilty, etc. most of the anarchist litterature nowadays indeed does look like it's coming from the Right, rather than the Left. It is interesting to note that the Left Anarchists argue that such a thing as Right Anarchism is a systematical impossibility[2014-9-01. : 11:37 pm] Zoan -- Sand WraithSand Wraith shouted: Zoan Community leaders > rulers any day of the week. But wouldn't community leaders be a type of class, which defeats the whole idea of communism?[2014-9-01. : 11:37 pm] Sand Wraith -- Sand WraithSand Wraith shouted: Zoan Community leaders > rulers any day of the week. One aspect of socialism is clearly educating people to form the basis to socialize with others and to help each other.[2014-9-01. : 11:37 pm] Jack -- You need to have some laws, or else it's not libertarianism, it's anarchism.[2014-9-01. : 11:37 pm] Jack -- Fire_KameFire_Kame shouted: Jack so criminalizing gay marriage and abortion minimizes federal oversight how? Who says there needs to be a federal government who police those laws?[2014-9-01. : 11:37 pm] Jack -- paynepayne shouted: Jack sorry, what do you mean? Politics tends to be liberal vs conservative, what you described is a system of government, not a spectrum of thought within that government (aka politics).[2014-9-01. : 11:36 pm] jjf28 -- RoyRoy shouted: But we all agree that we should legalize all drugs, right? should totally legalize a pill that infects takers with an apocalyptic supervirus[2014-9-01. : 11:36 pm] Fire_Kame -- JackJack shouted: Libertarianism is all about the government only running the police, and possibly the army, from my understanding of it. so criminalizing gay marriage and abortion minimizes federal oversight how?[2014-9-01. : 11:36 pm] Sand Wraith -- ZoanZoan shouted: Is communism even feasibly possible without any form of rulers holding the thing together? Community leaders > rulers any day of the week.[2014-9-01. : 11:36 pm] payne -- JackJack shouted: Payne that's not really political per se, is it? Isn't that more to do with system of government? sorry, what do you mean?[2014-9-01. : 11:36 pm] Jack -- But if abortion is against the law then the police must enforce that law.[2014-9-01. : 11:36 pm] Zoan -- Is communism even feasibly possible without any form of rulers holding the thing together?[2014-9-01. : 11:35 pm] Jack -- Libertarianism is all about the government only running the police, and possibly the army, from my understanding of it.[2014-9-01. : 11:35 pm] Sand Wraith -- paynepayne shouted: Sand Wraith the political compass has 2 dimensions: LEFT/RIGHT (capitalism versus communism) and BOTTOM/TOP (fascism versus anarchism)... all the possibilities are encompassed in that. Thus "Anarchism" is far from having to be linked with liberal ideas (though I am unsure what YOU mean by "liberal baggage" here) I meant "liberal baggage" as in ideas such as individuality, hedonism, lack of social responsibilty, etc.[2014-9-01. : 11:35 pm] Fire_Kame -- JackJack shouted: Fire_KameYeah what's that got to do with libertarian? it steps on freedom of choice - that's great if you don't plan to take part in gay marriage or get an abortion, but a tenant of libertarianism is that every has the freedom to make these decisions for themselves[2014-9-01. : 11:35 pm] Jack -- Payne that's not really political per se, is it? Isn't that more to do with system of government?[2014-9-01. : 11:34 pm] Jack -- laissez faire is where it's at, pity there's not many places with a proper laissez faire setup[2014-9-01. : 11:34 pm] payne -- Sand WraithSand Wraith shouted: payne Eh? "Capitalism is an economic system in which trade, industry, and the means of production are largely or entirely privately owned and operated for profit." (Wikipedia.) no one is FORCED to make profit when its a privately owned business...[2014-9-01. : 11:34 pm] payne -- Sand WraithSand Wraith shouted: payne Not sure about the anarchist comparison, as there is a lot of liberal baggage attached to it AFAIK. the political compass has 2 dimensions: LEFT/RIGHT (capitalism versus communism) and BOTTOM/TOP (fascism versus anarchism)... all the possibilities are encompassed in that. Thus "Anarchism" is far from having to be linked with liberal ideas (though I am unsure what YOU mean by "liberal baggage" here)[2014-9-01. : 11:34 pm] Jack -- Fire_KameFire_Kame shouted: Jack Really? I thought you had pretty conservative views on marriage and abortion? Yeah what's that got to do with libertarian?[2014-9-01. : 11:34 pm] Zoan -- paynepayne shouted: Zoan alright, get this: "communism" is a word that has a definition linked to it. In a socio-political debate, such a word is said to be what we have already stated: "stateless, moneyless, classless, post-scarcity". Thus, inevitable, communism IS anarchist. Uhh.. Anarchy is in no way a good idea either.[2014-9-01. : 11:33 pm] Fire_Kame -- JackJack shouted: I tend to be pretty libertarian, but then there are variations in libertarian thought anyway Really? I thought you had pretty conservative views on marriage and abortion?[2014-9-01. : 11:33 pm]  Moose -- No true Scotsman, no true Communism, no true Libertarians... what is real?[2014-9-01. : 11:33 pm] Sand Wraith -- paynepayne shouted: Sand Wraith capitalism isn't necessarily and inherently profit based... (but it seems to be the current tendency) Eh? "Capitalism is an economic system in which trade, industry, and the means of production are largely or entirely privately owned and operated for profit." (Wikipedia.)[2014-9-01. : 11:33 pm] Fire_Kame -- RoyRoy shouted: I didn't say I was a libertarian; that's just where I end up when I test myself. are you registered with a party?[2014-9-01. : 11:32 pm] Roy -- I didn't say I was a libertarian; that's just where I end up when I test myself.[2014-9-01. : 11:32 pm] Jack -- I tend to be pretty libertarian, but then there are variations in libertarian thought anyway[2014-9-01. : 11:32 pm] Fire_Kame -- RoyRoy shouted: Fire_Kame I'm a moderate libertarian by testing standards. Libertarian is about as close as I can get, even though I do not agree with most of the core concepts behind the party itself and their extreme conclusions. Best of a bad situation, I suppose.[2014-9-01. : 11:32 pm] Jack -- This quote thing is great for multithreaded simultaneous conversations[2014-9-01. : 11:32 pm] Jack -- Fire_KameFire_Kame shouted: Jack oh simmer jack, I was being remarkably flippant. Text sucks for displaying emotions and such[2014-9-01. : 11:32 pm] Roy -- RoyRoy shouted: Fire_Kame I'm a moderate libertarian by testing standards. I think the quote system is being abused.[2014-9-01. : 11:32 pm] payne -- Sand WraithSand Wraith shouted: payne Needs based as opposed to profits based, use value vs. market value, AFAIK. capitalism isn't necessarily and inherently profit based... (but it seems to be the current tendency)[2014-9-01. : 11:31 pm] Sand Wraith -- paynepayne shouted: Zoan alright, get this: "communism" is a word that has a definition linked to it. In a socio-political debate, such a word is said to be what we have already stated: "stateless, moneyless, classless, post-scarcity". Thus, inevitable, communism IS anarchist. Not sure about the anarchist comparison, as there is a lot of liberal baggage attached to it AFAIK.[2014-9-01. : 11:31 pm] Fire_Kame -- JackJack shouted: Fire_Kame The hover of the image explains the message more clearly oh simmer jack, I was being remarkably flippant. |
