Members in Shoutbox
You may search for a phrase in the shoutbox.
/w [name] » Whispers.
/r » Answers to whisperer.
/me » Marks as action.
Moderators may delete one or more of your shouts at any given time without notice and reason.
The Shoutbox may be good to ask for small pieces of advice, but for real questions, you still want to use our Forums
Please log in to shout.
[09:36 am]Sacrieur -- Because I mean it's only a problem if it goes off, right?
[09:35 am]Sacrieur -- May as well carry a loaded gun around with the safety off and cocked and hope it doesn't end up going off by accident.
[09:34 am]Sacrieur -- There's no reason to use an inferior format just 'cause.
[09:34 am]Sacrieur -- Especially Skype.
[09:34 am]Clokr_ -- I think I agree though that except when you are working with plain text (and fixed-width fonts) there are usually better options than tabs for indenting.
[09:33 am]Sacrieur -- I never have any problems copying or pasting my code anywhere, either. Places such as pastebin or skype work just fine. But they don't handle tabs nearly as well.
[09:32 am]Sacrieur -- I was working off of a template.
[09:32 am]Clokr_ -- Why didn't you use spaces?
[09:31 am]Sacrieur -- Getting them right was so frustrating I just tossed them out and used a grid.
[09:31 am]Sacrieur -- Most notably, caused by tab spaces being too large.
[09:30 am]Sacrieur -- I was formatting a text document the other day, then saved it. When I sent it to another computer that could print it using professional printing equipment, everything was skewed and out of place. The formatting was all wrong so I had to spend another half an hour fixing it.
[09:28 am]Clokr_ -- Sacrieur
Sacrieur shouted: Clokr_ I can also make up some random numbers to make myself feel smartIt's a matter of compatibility when you need compatibility. When you don't it's a matter of taste. Give me a single compatibility problem caused by the left-most indent tabs.
[09:28 am]Sacrieur -- compatability*
[09:28 am]Sacrieur -- Spaces never have comparability problems. They're not arbitrarily defined based on what the text formatter decides it should be, they have a concrete, definite meaning that's ubiquitous across all devices and services.
[09:26 am]Sacrieur -- It's a matter of compatibility. I just gave you two real world situations where tab characters have created compatibility problems.
[09:24 am]Clokr_ -- Sacrieur
Sacrieur shouted: Just like using tab characters for programming is silly.It's at most a matter of taste. I will agree though that if you are working with people on different IDEs or you are using different IDEs you might want to use spaces for anything but for the left-most indent. There, again, it is a matter of taste.
[09:23 am]Sacrieur -- Clokr_
Clokr_ shouted: Also this: https://peterbraden.co.uk/article/space-infidel/I can also make up some random numbers to make myself feel smart
[09:21 am]Sacrieur -- Just like using tab characters for programming is silly.
[09:21 am]Sacrieur -- I agree.
[09:21 am]Clokr_ -- Sacrieur
Sacrieur shouted: I think they tried to use \t for the delimiter, so when you'd try to convert it, all sorts of weird things would happen.Using \t as a delimiter is silly.
[09:20 am]Sacrieur -- Clokr_
Clokr_ shouted: Saving them as tabs let's you edit indent in a simple way on less complex editors while messes up aligned stuff if the tab size is not preset. I find as annoying when things don't show lined up as when I have to edit indent one space as a time.Then you've never used the "use spaces instead of tabs" option, because the tab key does the same thing as four spaces in any IDE I've used.
[09:19 am]Sacrieur -- I think they tried to use \t for the delimiter, so when you'd try to convert it, all sorts of weird things would happen.
[09:19 am]Sacrieur -- Clokr_
Clokr_ shouted: Everybody is using damn tabs, because everybody hits the tab key sooner or later. The only difference is how they are stored. This is like unicode vs utf8.At work we had some data that could be exported into an excel file, only we don't use excel at work, we use openoffice. So naturally it doesn't want to import correctly. One of the problems is that it was encoded in UTF-8, but not properly for some reason.
[09:13 am]Clokr_ -- Corbo
Corbo shouted: I M DRUNKDo you drink like every day?
[09:13 am]Clokr_ -- Roy
Roy shouted: I used to believe tabs were the way to go, but that's when I was starting out. If you're new to the field, you'll hopefully become enlightened someday as well.Good thing we got plenty of enlightened people here at SEN
[09:10 am]Corbo -- I M DRUNK
[09:10 am]Corbo -- NAtURALLY
[09:10 am]Corbo -- DEARSEN
[08:36 am]Clokr_ -- FaRTy1billion
FaRTy1billion shouted: and as I'm adding stuff it's getting more consistent so I can get lazierGood
[08:35 am]Clokr_ -- It all depends on what editors you are using and what editors you are planning on using. In my opinion there are more editors which let you change tab width than that automatically read space groups as tabs.
[08:33 am]Clokr_ -- lets*
[08:31 am]Clokr_ -- Saving them as tabs let's you edit indent in a simple way on less complex editors while messes up aligned stuff if the tab size is not preset. I find as annoying when things don't show lined up as when I have to edit indent one space as a time.
[08:28 am]Clokr_ -- Everybody is using damn tabs, because everybody hits the tab key sooner or later. The only difference is how they are stored. This is like unicode vs utf8.
[08:27 am]Clokr_ -- Oh god, is this stupid debate still going on?
[07:54 am]Sacrieur -- Maybe if you actually focused for an extended period of time for once in your life you'd find that yes, you can do all of those things, you just don't want to, because you'd rather surf reddit, play video games, hang out with friends, go out and party, or whatever the hell else you do. So yeah, the only reason it's impossible is because you're too lazy.
[07:53 am]Sacrieur -- Frankly I find the whole attitude of "The professor gave us a twenty page paper to write in two days! This is impossible!" exceptionally annoying. It's one of my pet peeves to hear people give me bullshit excuses about why they can't do something.
[07:51 am]Sacrieur -- I did it in 30 minutes and without the cheat sheet. Not because I'm some super genius, but actually because the test was pretty easy. Everyone else was just too dumb or unmotivated to study.
[07:50 am]Sacrieur -- He even made one of the questions extra credit because so many people did so awful.
[07:48 am]Sacrieur -- On my last midterm for my hardest class the professor gave us a a free cheat sheet, and still somehow over half the class got below a 70%.
[07:47 am]Sacrieur -- The only thing that's going on here is your professor weeding out the crap.
[07:43 am]Sacrieur -- That's the very definition of impossible.
[07:42 am]Sacrieur -- Yeah I guess it is impossible, I mean how are you supposed to do it when you've got plans this weekend to party?
[07:01 am]lil-Inferno -- ok
[06:22 am]TiKels -- Preparation from the teacher like "you won't be able to do this"
[06:22 am]TiKels -- I'm not sure what annoyed me more. The fact that I'm not used to nontraditional assignments, the fact that I've had so few, or that there was so little preparation
[06:21 am]TiKels -- So I discovered my professor gave us an assignment that is 100% impossible.
[04:34 am]KrayZee -- We are now best friends!
[04:34 am]KrayZee -- Your mom's name is Martha too?
[04:27 am]Mini Moose 2707 -- Just kidding, it uses \n, nobody uses /n because that's not an escaped character
[04:27 am]Mini Moose 2707 -- Sacrieur
Sacrieur shouted: It should be \n, because it's the most obvious and makes sense, but Linux/OS X have yet to catch on.Linux does use /n
[04:26 am]Sacrieur -- Yeah, I mean spaces.
[04:20 am]Mini Moose 2707 -- Sacrieur
Sacrieur shouted: I use a proprietary in-browser text editor for school that formats tabs really weird, but whitespace is the one thing it can get right.Whitespace includes tabs, though. So if it formats tabs really weird, it doesn't get whitespace right.
[04:10 am]Sacrieur -- NudeRaider
NudeRaider shouted: Roy if there's actual upsides, like the mentioned mobile support, sure.Mobile devices can do spaces too. Cool!
[04:09 am]Sacrieur -- And even then I'd probably write my own grid class for writing things into the console formatted in a grid.
[04:07 am]Sacrieur -- \t is for the command line only, please.
[04:06 am]Sacrieur -- I'd riot.
[04:06 am]Sacrieur -- Roy
Roy shouted: I already described the ideal solution a long time ago: no whitespace. If formatting customization is the responsibility of the IDE, it should do all of it, not a half-assed job with tabs that doesn't even work in all cases so you make up bizarre rules about when to use a combination of tabs and spaces to line things up.Right? Can you imagine working on a project and whenever they merge a branch there's \t characters everywhere?
[04:04 am]Sacrieur -- It loads a bunch of crap into your clipboard.
[04:03 am]Sacrieur -- Trying to copypasta from it is a nightmare.
[04:03 am]Sacrieur -- It converts the \n\n into its own proprietary stuff when you copypasta into it.
[04:02 am]jjf28 -- they can all be converted from their crappy format to a single, consistent format; whereas \n\n cannot be differentiated from two new lines
[04:02 am]Sacrieur -- You could even port it safely over.
[04:02 am]Sacrieur -- There's no reason why there should be three different ways to write newline.
[04:01 am]Sacrieur -- They're really not.
[04:01 am]jjf28 -- mm, but the main formats (\r\n, \n, \r) are all easily convertible, \n\n just sucks nuggets
[04:00 am]Sacrieur -- It should be \n, because it's the most obvious and makes sense, but Linux/OS X have yet to catch on.
[04:00 am]Sacrieur -- jjf28
jjf28 shouted: Sacrieur ok, who do I killIt's not the only thing weird about newlines. I mean there's no real unifying standard.
[03:59 am]Sacrieur -- This is a particularly good thing if you're doing python.
[03:59 am]Sacrieur -- Well, since all my code uses spaces, I've never had a problem with it.