So, I'm thinking of getting a desktop again, after four years of working from my laptop or lab computers.

Things I'd like:

• Some gaming ability. Even the integrated Intel graphics can run Skyrim, but I'd to be able to do it (and similar games for the next few years) on medium settings at a reasonable (at least 40) fps. I'd estimate that a $100 GPU can handle my needs.
  
• Two monitors. Preferably, both 1080p. I'm not going to run two games at once or anything, but this would help for doing anything productive.
  
• Quiet and cool. If meeting both of these needs liquid cooling, then compromises are needed, but I don't want to be able to tell that a computer is on from across the room by the sound alone.
  
• If possible, a small SSD drive to use to hold OSes, etc. 32-64GB? Rest should be a disk drive for storage.
  

Additionally, some USB3 (I'd say at least two), 8GB RAM, yada yada. And I live in the US. Apart from mild gaming above, I anticipate using the computer primarily for programming, though with the possibility of running VMs, dual-booting, etc. I'll handle the peripherals, I may not need a case (we have one hanging around in the basement somewhere). Try to keep it ACAP (as cheap as possible). As a benchmark, $700 sounds reasonable. Though the two monitors may stretch this a bit.

Thanks in advance, whoever ends up giving good suggestions!

Here's my attempt:


Explanation:

Now, regarding your silent requirement: a liquid cooling setup is not really feasible with your budget. The greatest way to reduce sound is as simple as configuring your computer's fan controls. I don't know how loud the stock fan on the FX-4300 is, but if it's a concern of yours, you should get an aftermarket cooler like the Hyper 212 EVO (which will generate plenty of noise on its max speed, but this of course goes back to my point about fan control).

Post has been edited 5 time(s), last time on May 10 2014, 5:03 pm by Roy.

Thanks a lot, that was remarkably close to the $700. Honestly, I kind of expected the two monitors to bring it up to $1k or so, but these are great parts.

I'm going to take a closer look at hybrid drives, see how they compare with having an SSD and a separate drive (I realize the latter is more expensive, but the benefits may be worth it).

Also, despite having had an Athlon at some point, right now I'm worried about going with an AMD processor. Last time I cared, I was under the impression that AMD products were quite inferior. Would splurging another $100 on changing to a modern i5 be potentially worth it, do you think? Especially considering that most reviews about the AMD complain about the cooling system there, which would probably need to get replaced. Again, not so much for gaming, but probably for the purpose of general massive multitasking.


EDIT:
So, I modified your list a bit. If I do this these are going to come as gifts, so I changed to Amazon for everything except the monitors, where the $40 each are too strong.

Also modified the CPU to go with an Intel i5, a corresponding motherboard, and replaced the hybrid drive with a 120GB SSD and a 1TB HDD. And dropped the case. So I basically added $200 to the price, and may end up getting something between the two... how does this look?

One thing I'm unsure about with regards to the SDD + HDD vs hybrid drive issue is how much I'll have to manually control. The hybrid drives boast that the caching will be performed automatically, on a lower level than the OS, so I'll never need to worry about it. Is there something similar that can be done with separate drives? That would be awfully convenient, and if not I may end up just going with a nice hybrid drive.

Post has been edited 3 time(s), last time on May 10 2014, 9:26 pm by Centreri.

Impressive low-budget from Roy.
Though it cuts corners I wouldn't recommend. Your alternative build tells me you recognize the dilemma. I suggest to save more money for a few months and buy a more expensive build then, or leave out optional components for now (better cooling, SSD, graphics card, 4gb RAM, case, heck even optical) and buy it as money comes available and have a better, more satisfying build in the long run.

Watercooling is not quieter than air cooling. If anything, the pump is more audible because it's outside the case. But it can potentially dissipate more heat so it's particularly interesting for overclocking and enthusiasts. Since you're not going for a high performance build, air coolers should be fine.
Though watch out for stock AMD coolers they tend to blare like turbines. But I can't tell you which models do and which are fine.
Intel stock coolers are non-audible in idle, but they become clearly noticeable when the CPU has a lot of work to do.

Consider skipping the GPU for now. An Intel HD 4600 should be enough for today's games on medium. And the longer you can wait the faster GPUs will be for the same cost, effectively prolonging the viability of your build.

AMDs are fine performance wise; they even offer a better bang for the buck. Though their best bang will not be quite as loud as Intel's, they can easily satisfy the demands of the average user. Their main problem is efficiency. They need much more power per performance than Intel CPUs, which generates more excess heat. And that ramps up electricity cost and cooling demands and shortens lifespan. That's why they are considered inferior, but they are still viable where budget is tight.

Haven't read up on hybrid SSDs. Though I imagine it's quite effective when you're usually accessing the same files and quickly fades in effectiveness when every day you work with different programs, large files, games, etc., because then the cache won't be able to predict what to cache. (completely talking out of my ass here)
The sweet spot for SSD size is 128, the minimum size 64, if you really, really have to save $20
As for using a tiny SSD as cache without going hybrid, I wouldn't know why you'd want that, but Windows 7 and higher can use USB drives to speed up the system, so it should be possible to integrate a SSD. However it makes much more sense to just install the OS on it.

Note that Amazon.com offers the same CPU for $160 when choosing a different seller.

So, when it comes to PC building we all have our preferences. As someone responsible daily for the money of others mind usually tend to be quality minded rather than price minded, because if it blows up they're just going to blame me, not the company that made it. Therefore where as someone like rockz or Roy amaze me with their budgets, good for someone who scrapes by on minimal pay and hours, my bare minimums for component quality and brand pedigree are far higher. To that end I present my proposed build:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-4430 3.0GHz Quad-Core Processor ($184.96 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z87M-D3H 1.0 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($90.16 @ Newegg)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($65.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($79.99 @ Micro Center)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($56.98 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB Video Card ($144.99 @ NCIX US)
Case: Fractal Design Define Mini MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($84.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 450W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($73.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($19.98 @ OutletPC)
Monitor: Asus VE247H 23.6" Monitor ($119.99 @ Newegg)
Monitor: Asus VE247H 23.6" Monitor ($119.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $1042.00
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-05-12 05:53 EDT-0400)

You will note the PSU is a SeaSonic, which are arguably the best in the world as well as being noted for being quiet/cool/efficient. EVGA are regarded as the premier brand for NV GPUs. Samsung has made an amazing name for themselves in the SSD space and the EVO drives are not only durable but extremely fast. WD being one of the two most reliable HDD manufac's available produces a product I have sitting in my build next to me: The EZEX. For a 1TB mechanical it is surprisingly quiet and light using less platters and more density than its off-brand counterparts. The motherboard is by Gigabyte and though they may not be as flashy as MSI or ASUS they are known for durability. Slow as GB was to move to UEFI they've since moved past that hump and for the price I'd trust them much sooner than anyone else. Crucial, while not as big as they once were have received high marks for this particular series of RAM as it is both cost effective and offers very reasonable specs. Reviews speak highly of it. Finally the case is a Fractal R4, which I had as my previous enclosure. It is commonly regarded as the perfect compromise between noise and airflow, it is an all around solid case. For this particular build due to your requirements being easily met in terms of performance I opted for the space-saving mATX factor for our case and mobo. I feel the smaller foot print should be more pleasing coming from a laptop.

Also consider this was done under my PcPP account so I may not have the best prices for you in particular.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on May 12 2014, 9:53 am by Excalibur.

I cannot support Ex's build or you. It's a premium build that goes for maximum reliability even when there are cheaper alternatives that are of similar quality. It's for enthusiasts or people that value carefreeness over money. (Not saying cheap parts I recommend would break earlier, but having the component that statistically breaks that much percent less alone can ease your mind.)

Motherboard just go whatever. I'm under the impression nowadays it's really rare to get a faulty one, regardless of manufacturer. Personally I like Asrock.

RAM same as mobo. Unless you're going to overclock.

Video card all that matters is cooling when you're set for a specific GPU. The board is largely dictated by nVidia anyway. You did say you wanted it quiet, so get something that has good reviews in that respect. No idea if that coincides with Ex's choice or is possible cheaper.

Case isn't necessary for your low power build. You don't need good airflow because you don't generate much heat. And I suppose you're not going to change around much stuff in your case or need many extras. Go for something cheap.

Power supply is arguably the one component where quality is critical. I've heard no complaints about Corsair builder series, but if you want a boost here I'd recommend an Antec.

Monitors I have no idea what the difference of Ex's and Roy's monitors are, but I do know there's okay monitors for as cheap as Roy's.

P.S. In case you get the impression from my post to always get the cheapest available component:
Generally stay away from dirt cheap / no-name. It'll cost you more money and nerves in the long run.

"Motherboard just go whatever. I'm under the impression nowadays it's really rare to get a faulty one, regardless of manufacturer. Personally I like Asrock."
I've had several MSI boards be DoA or die within a month hence why I don't buy from them. Why would you go cheap on the component that hooks into all the others and dictates what interfaces you get to run as well as build stability?

"RAM same as mobo. Unless you're going to overclock."
OCZ Gold kit I had on X58 caused multiple problems. Reliable RAM is just as important as anything else.

"Video card all that matters is cooling when you're set for a specific GPU. The board is largely dictated by nVidia anyway. You did say you wanted it quiet, so get something that has good reviews in that respect. No idea if that coincides with Ex's choice or is possible cheaper."
Its the cheapest 750Ti anyway, so can't really go anywhere with that.

"Case isn't necessary for your low power build. You don't need good airflow because you don't generate much heat. And I suppose you're not going to change around much stuff in your case or need many extras. Go for something cheap."
Yes let's get something flimsy and thin when he said noise was a factor. v.v

"Power supply is arguably the one component where quality is critical. I've heard no complaints about Corsair builder series, but if you want a boost here I'd recommend an Antec."
Nude this is one of those times where I turn into zealot Ex and go 'If you don't know what you're talking about it might be best to keep your mouth shut.' Corsair is well documented as cutting corners on their lower cost PSUs and SeaSonic makes the best in the world. This is one area not to be skimped on.

"Monitors I have no idea what the difference of Ex's and Roy's monitors are, but I do know there's okay monitors for as cheap as Roy's."
Just copied Roys because they were a good pick.

"P.S. In case you get the impression from my post to always get the cheapest available component:
Generally stay away from dirt cheap / no-name. It'll cost you more money and nerves in the long run. "
This is exactly what I practiced in my proposed build.


Edit:
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-4430 3.0GHz Quad-Core Processor ($184.96 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z87M-D3H 1.0 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($90.16 @ Newegg)
Memory: Patriot Viper 3 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 840 EVO 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($79.99 @ Micro Center)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($56.98 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB Video Card ($144.99 @ NCIX US)
Case: Nanoxia NXDS4B MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($79.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: XFX 550W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($47.99 @ NCIX US)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($19.98 @ OutletPC)
Monitor: Asus VE247H 23.6" Monitor ($119.99 @ Newegg)
Monitor: Asus VE247H 23.6" Monitor ($119.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $1005.01
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-05-12 06:04 EDT-0400)
Managed to get price down a bit further after logging out of my PcPP account and using some minorly different parts. The XFX is just a rebranded SeaSonic and saves us some money.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on May 12 2014, 10:05 am by Excalibur.

They're the same monitors: if you click Ex's PCPP link you'll see the actual total of the build comes out around $1050 (hence the last line of his post).

The only place where I cut a corner is the hybrid drive (which I would never suggest for a budget that allows an SSD + HDD). I think the CPU/Motherboard selection is fine for the budget.

Maybe I should stay away from hasty morning posts. I overlooked a few things and made some spelling erros.

@Mobo: I know you had your trouble with MSI. I didn't. Just shared my experience as every experience counts to get a more accurate picture of the reality.

@RAM: Okay. Just don't imply ADATA or OCZ RAM is unreliable per se.

@GPU: Didn't notice the Ti. Just saying if you find the same GPU for cheaper from another brand you can go for it if the reviews check out.

@Case: That's a valid point, though I wouldn't pay another $30 (or $80) for less noise when the fans already are pretty silent. Cent gonna have decide that though.

@PSU: Well you're right, I'm not informed about that specific PSU. But I swear I've seen this (or a similar) PSU in a few low-budget builds here on SEN, so I assumed it was alright. So if I was wrong there he could still get an Antec. Too bad he's not buying in Europe. Here he could get a be quiet!.

@Monitor: My bad. I didn't check, and just saw they are almost $40 more expensive before you edited it.

For that budget yes, hence impressive. But I wouldn't settle for AMD. Those were my 2 main gripes.
Being influenced by Ex I'm also not sure I like MSI mobo, I somewhat suspicious of ADATA RAM (though I guess those should be okay). And Ex added that the Corsairs have reliability issues, but I didn't know that.

Btw. the onboard graphics fall below your 40fps requirement. Full HD, medium settings it gets only 20-30 fps on modern games. Thought I should mention that.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on May 12 2014, 10:05 pm by NudeRaider.

My only good word for MSI is the number of people I've known to RMA through them usually don't have a hard time getting their replacement board. But for someone like me, I find downtime unacceptable, so I really don't care how well a company RMAs.

OCZ RAM is noted for being unreliable actually. This is why they went bankrupt. They have always been and will always be a hit-or-miss-no-guarantee brand.

Yeah the 750Ti is kind of the final word in lower mid range GPUs right now. Nothing can really touch it. Its quiet, low power draw, and punches frames very high for its price point. Its a serious little card.

When someone tells me a build needs to be quiet, I take it as if they said 'I don't want to hear this thing, ever.' and do my best to get them to that point. I try to over-deliver on what I'm told is a particularly important area.

Only Corsair's lower end (cheaper PSUs made by inferior OEMs) units are noted for being problematic. But by the time you move to their upper units you could have taken your pick of other NZXT/XFX/SeaSonic models so I'm having a hard time understanding how Corsair is moving PSUs right now. That said I also want to mention how stagnant Antec has been. They haven't delivered a new or exciting product that wasn't awful or a rehash of an existing one in years. They aren't bad they just aren't doing anything to stand out. Currently their case lineup is as uninspired and stale as CoolerMaster's is and I really wish these two companies who once dominated the enclosure market would think outside the box.

Power supplies should always be purchased with a decent review:
http://www.realhardtechx.com

None of the Corsair builder series have poor reviews from a reputable source, and at $20 for a decent PSU which will run virtually anything except dual graphics, there is little reason to purchase a more expensive PSU. By cutting corners, Corsair has created an excellent product which competes with the terrible OEM PSUs and department store PSUs at the PSU price floor.

That being said, the only other PSU company I would recommend is a decently priced Rosewill and on rare instances a Seasonic on sale. The power supply market has changed drastically from 10 years ago, such that quality has improved tremendously with the new 80+ specifications, all you really need is a power supply which passes these requirements, but a few jokers slip through the cracks, and their price usually reflects this. If you're buying a 700W PSU for $40, it's probably bad. If you're buying a 700W PSU for $40 and using it as a 400W PSU, it will probably last you a while, but I'd still shy away from it unless it was made by cwt, fsp, seasonic, enermax, great wall, or super flower.

Here's my recommendations:
MSI GeForce GTX 750 Ti OC 2GB GDDR5 Video Card $115
grab a $50-$60 120 GB ssd. Speed in this case is so fast it's not worthwhile to pay extra for more speed. I just switched my family over to these when they were on sale for $60.
$15 ODD or just grab one from another computer.
el cheapo Biostar B85 chipset motherboard for $60
With such a low budget, you really need to fight for your dollar amounts, and the only way to do that is to sacrifice build quality for speed.

May just be my particular experience or my imagination rockz but I've heard of far more people needing to RMA Corsair PSUs since their push into the low budget sector.

I wish we had some data to make component picks on, rather than anecdote.

Enough anecdotes qualifies as data. Check reviews.

What I got out of this conversation:

1) It may be worth it to put off getting a GPU. I really don't have serious gaming needs right now, so... yay.
2) I like Ex's XFX PSU, and his SSD/HDD combo is exactly the same as what I picked out, which is nice.
3) Ex's mobo is only $10 more than my intel mobo, same processor, so I may go for Gigabyte instead of MSI. Probably.
4) Ex's memory is cheaper, so why not.

By mixing in my already-available case and avoiding getting a GPU for now, I'm at around $750. Thanks a lot, guys!

EDIT: I've never built a computer before; should I expect these parts to come with all the required cables and such? Thanks.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on May 14 2014, 12:00 am by Centreri.

They should come with the PSU. If you're getting an aftermarket cooler, you'll want to buy thermal paste: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0087X728K/

In that case consider getting 1680x1050 monitors instead of full HD. They are better for almost everything except watching movies. The real reason in your scenario is gaming. You get about 10%-40% better framerates (depending on the game) with that resolution on an Intel 4600.

As a bonus the 16:10 format offers larger height at the cost of reduced width, which is nice for documents, websites and more.

You'll need a power cord though I'd expect the PSU to include one. Otherwise everything should be with the other components.
However when buying cheap I've witnessed a mobo only having 1 SATA cable (you need 2-3) and monitors without cables (you need DVI + power cord).
Check what accessories are said to be in the box of the product you're buying to make sure.
Not sure about thermal paste, honestly. I recall coolers nowadays come prepared with thermal paste on it, but I'm not sure.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on May 14 2014, 10:43 am by NudeRaider.

Well no, that's not really true. Anecdotes by their nature aren't trustworthy - you have no idea if people are biased, or only reporting bad / good cases etc. Data is all inclusive and aims to be free of bias.

Also reviews/benchmarks for new products seldom say anything about reliability, because they 1. get special samples from the manufacturer - they're very unlikely to ever get DOA units, and 2. only benchmark and run each piece of equipment for a few days or maybe weeks.

What I really want to see in terms of data, but we probably never will, is return/RMA rates from a major retailer like newegg or Amazon.

you need to see both the RMA amount and the total sold. Benchmarks beat the crap out of power supplies and generally test in a hot box over power. Many reviewers go out and buy their own products off the shelf because they don't want to get handpicked ones from manufacturers.

HDD failure rates are rather interesting, as they're generally around 5% a year at least in the first year. WD generally has the worst failure rate.

Source?