For the past month, the staff has had an ongoing discussion about SEN's current code and the future of SEN's forums as a whole. I'd now like to open the discussion to the community, specifically getting input about what you all would think about some of the following questions. General comments and questions are welcome, as well.

1. Despite the occasional MySQL error and obvious missing features, are you satisfied with SEN's current state (specifically regarding functionality)?
2. If you had to choose between a new CMS being used (i.e. vBulletin, Invision Board, phpBB, etc.) and the current SEN code, which would you prefer?
3. If we migrated to a new CMS, how important would porting all old threads to the new forums be (as opposed to just keeping them archived like SEN v4)?
4a. If we migrated to a new CMS, which features of SEN would you most want brought over?
4b. Which features could you do without?
4c. Which new features would you like to see added?
5. Would SEN on a CMS feel like it isn't SEN even if it looked the exact same way it does now (skin-wise)?

As always, keep the posts on topic. I'll be policing this thread and editing/deleting things I don't think are relevant/necessary. It is okay to disagree with each other, so keep it civil. I'm mainly interested in general feelings on the current state of SEN versus what could be done in the future.

I have no issues, and I think at this late stage it would be a wasted effort.

I would never deter the betterment of my beloved SEN.

I think an updated skin and changes to the front page to showcase more of the site would be nice, but I don't know if it would be worth it at this point. I remember MadZombie posting an idea for a theme in some thread a while back in which we kind of discussed the same thing, and it looked pretty nice. Changing up the front page to make posts, contests, and news more noticeable (I never look at the contests or new maps; my front page is always on news) would be nice, but it's not bad how it is.

I do think, however, that before any serious talks of changing up SEN are discussed, the MySQL errors should definitely be removed and basic functions like search should without-a-doubt be fixed. ;o

Wanting those coding things fixed is great, but you have to remember that we have no active dedicated coder. It's basically a matter of whether you can live with how SEN is now hoping that one day someone will fix it, or be fine with a major change to a new system. With the former, there is no guarantee any of those things will be fixed in the near future.

<pedantry>A CMS is more abstract than bulletin board/forum software in particular; stuff like vBulletin and phpBB don't really count as a CMS per-say. Things like Drupal, Joomla, and even Wordpress are closer to this definition.</pedantry>

If SEN switches to other forum software, you'll have a lot of toys to play with and you can rely on it working and being supported and such (after some fiddling, of course)... but coding for it could potentially be pretty involved, depending upon what you want to accomplish (some DLDB features come to mind). You'll have to make the most of the toys you're given or can download until you're able to get your hands properly dirtied in actual code (which for any group of people adept at SC1 mapping might be easier than you think), but don't expect to be become so intimate with the code without some studying and tinkering (for adding non-trivial features, fixing (potentially) non-trivial bugs, etc.). People make livings off that kind of shit alone.

I'm speaking very generally, of course. Most often their code is well-documented and easy to get help with for most things you'd want to do, but you'll still need to be proactive with that.

Post has been edited 8 time(s), last time on Jan 4 2013, 1:56 pm by Tuxlar.

The reason this has all emerged is because I had a discussion with Moose about potentially re-coding SEN. We have some ideas on what we would like cut and what needs re-working, unfortunately he does not want to get too involved with the project and that would leave me to do the project and presumably I will be doing it mostly alone.

The real question here is what the community wants, because Devlin could probably just switch to a simple forum and everyone can still have fun and share ideas, etc...

However, there are difficulties with bringing those files over and they are not sure if they should make a static copy of the site or attempt to take all the files from this site and bring them to the new bulletin board.

I on the other hand have offered to re-develop SEN, free of charge and there is no knowledge of how long it will take, whether it will be worth while and whether or not I will want to be developing SEN a year or two down the line.

I have expressed clearly that I would like to make this a group project between the staff members and members of the community and have a new website launched in time for Heart of The Swarm to try and bring in a new flock of members and get SEN back on track. However, if I did not finish by then, I would finish during the Summer when I am not at University.

The real question is whether or not the community would be happier with the SEN Staff re-developing the site, moving the site with a static copy or attempting to entirely move the site.

There may be some casualties in the process, including features being lost temporarily or permanently.

Don't you touch my SEN Games, even though I'm now poor as hell!

Haha, I had some other ideas for the mineral system actually, seeing as Heart of The Swarm is going to have clan support, I figured it would be best to do away with the current clan features and come up with a completely new system and the minerals people earned were going to go towards the clan coffers and then I would see what I can come up with from there.

Moose and I don't completely agree on minerals, I think he's a bit more cynical than I am and would like to outright destroy them >;D! (Or just make some meaningful items that are worth buying, rather than the current lot of items that just slow down the website )

I personally would love it if you guys improve SEN somehow. I don't mind the current setup but I think if you guys can make it better go for it. As for the current threads and forums I think if you manage to port the newer and more popular ones I would be fine with it. I would also prefer to keep minerals.

If this is planning to revitalise SEN through HotS / SC2 and usurp mapster then...

Uh, I mean - yeh that would be smart and could work, and could keep SEN going strong. OK I'm all for it just please be careful with the DLDB and forum content we don't wanna lose that shit.

If we move from one forum software to another I feel we shouldn't move at all. If we do move I think archiving what we've got and starting from scratch will be fine.

However, I also think that maybe its is time for SEN to enter web 2.0 and perhaps build an honest front page instead of a stream from the forums. You already lock topics put in announcements, how about instead you make them blog posts with comments disabled? Change the front page to look more like a homepage, with the toolbar at the top listing "Blog" "Files" "Community" "WIKI" (if that's still a thing) "FAQ". Under Community have the link to the Forum, Member areas, etc. I think minerals are fun but I really do prefer karma systems now. I think its a better measure of how useful a member is to the community. And I do like the shoutbox... <3 forever. I would hate to lose some sort of quick chat capability - didn't someone once say they could set up an IRC room?.

Just my three cents.

IRC is incredibly simple to set up, but the problem is that the chat can't be integrated into a website. You have to go to another site where the chat is being hosted, and while SEN could easily just a link to direct us there, I feel like that's more effort than most people are willing to exert. Having the chat right here on the site itself is what makes it so convenient and popular, and if you host it somewhere else, I highly doubt it'd get the same reception.

If one can host shit that does things like generating minimap thumbnail images of Starcraft maps for a database, you could probably do things like piping an IRC channel to your site with AJAX polling or websockets.

Lol at the IRC thing. If the new site has less functions than the current one, then why are we moving to the new site?? It should have everything and more.

Also I don't really like the idea of starting with a 'blank slate' on the new site. Forum posts, DLDB, and members should be moved over if possible. It makes the site look like it has history and also doesn't mean we have to keep referring back to the archives.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 4 2013, 7:12 pm by DevliN. Reason: I don't care that you want minerals.

I'm aware of this. I got caught up calling it a CMS because I'm leaning toward vBulletin, and their latest version is being advertised as more of a CMS than just a forum.

Actually no. This all emerged because a while ago we were talking about moving to a different forum system and Cecil said he wanted to try to code a new SEN from the ground up. When that project ceased, we went back to talking about moving to something like vBulletin. Discussion on that died, and then about a month ago one staff member decided to bring it back up after dealing with one too many MySQL errors. Your request to do SEN v6 is pretty recent.

Made a joke and Moose didn't find it funny, so no longer a joke can be found here.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 4 2013, 7:59 pm by InsolubleFluff.

If you changed the site how would the shoutbox work? Would you improve it so it doesnt need refreshing? If thats not possibe what can you do to improve that?

There presumably is a way to make it not require refreshing, since Facebook can do it.
That being said they're all paid geniuses and this is a free community site.

One of the things Moose and I discussed were having an automatic clearing of the shoutbox to reduce load times and keep it relatively clear whilst also maintaining a way to save a shout for later reference.

I'd definitely like to see the whole "Sc1 forums hidden by default" feature remain, that way we can keep the growing sc2 userbase coming here.