Staredit Network > Forums > Staredit Network > Topic: New Minerals
New Minerals
Jul 22 2010, 12:43 am
By: Vrael
Pages: 1 2 3 >
 

Jul 22 2010, 12:43 am Vrael Post #1



I don't mean to uselessly call out the new mineral system as a piece of crap, I have reasons for why it sucks, and a solution for the problem.

As far as I understand it, this is how it works:

Member A does good action B.
Staff Member C notices good action B by Member A.
Staff Member C decides to give some arbitrary mineral reward to Member A.

Pros:
-Not possible to abuse the system
-People who deserve minerals will get them, and people who don't, won't
-less "post for minerals" spam
-minerals exist. (THIS IS A BIG PRO)

Cons:
-People who don't deserve minerals might still get them (staff could play favorites *COUGH COUGH IP/DEVILESK COUGH UNBANNED COUGH*)
-Not fun anymore, since you can hardly get any
-Only receive minerals once in a blue moon, or even less often
-Extra work for the staff
-Staff must first notice that good action B has occurred by Member A, and its likely they'll miss many
-members like Kame, that we still like (well thats debatable for some I suppose) but don't actually contribute anything like maps will never get any
-new members won't be able to get any
-it's no longer a game really, it's a merit system, which we already have
-decisions about how many minerals to give for what action may vary between staff members, leading to inconsistency
-if there is some "Minerals Draft" for consistency within the staff, people will nitpick it

Remember, these are "Cons" not "Problems with no possible solution at all" before you all go and say to me "oh but we could easily just say 'no' to all the nitpickers" ect ect.

Essentially what I see, is that this new system is a piece of junk which is simply drawing on the enthusiasm for the old version of minerals from the older versions of SEN. As a new member, I would want to be able to immediately take part in the 'fun', which now consists of me (the figurative new member) having to do something like produce a whole map (presumably) to get enough minerals to be worth buying anything. I would not expect new members to be immediately omniscient with regards to sc/sc2 knowledge, rather that they come here to learn about it, and should be able to partake in the minerals games while learning.

Imagine where the minerals system will be 1 year from now. Are all our moderators and staff really going to be diligent enough to dole out the merit in minerals for every single action every single one of our members makes? Won't this system favor the people we know already? For example, when I was a moderator I was much more likely (and still am more likely) to read a post by Kaias, than by say, Lanthanide, because I hang with Kaias in channel donuts, and never said a word to lanthanide on SEN for the most part. Remember when NudeRaider had a bazillion minerals because he helped out in UMS Assistance so much? As far as I know, that's how people came to know him, and he was asked to be a moderator because he was so helpful, and not because he was a particularly well known person by the existing staff.

It's not much of a game anymore, now that the staff are the only real players. If the minerals system stays this way, we might as well remove the regular/veteran/elite status, since we'll be able to tell what a person is at sen based on their mineral count, and how many items (like name color, avatar space ect) they have. This in turn limits the people who have minerals to the veterans and elite mostly, and that's just silly that we're not letting everyone play.

As for my solution, basically go back to something resembling the old system. 1 mineral for each new post containing over X characters. Sure it's not perfect either, but it's a hell of a lot better than what this system looks like. If people make a bazillion posts with exactly X+1 characters, the staff will notice and have to fix it once, instead of continuously having to do stuff. Essentially, this new system is "lets prevent all cheating" instead of "lets just play the damn game" and sucks.[/essay]



None.

Jul 22 2010, 12:51 am Devourer Post #2

Hello

Damn, you are right.
I would like to mix the systems, for one we should keep the current additional mineral boost to those who are helping but as well hand out minerals for posting. Adding a system which allows the staff to "suspend this member from gaining minerals in this forum" should cause less abuse as well. Additionally, more minerals for specific forums are even better and I would like to hand out 10-20 minerals for every showcase topic created automatically, this should encourage people to actually do stuff.

Thanks a lot.



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Jul 22 2010, 12:52 am A_of-s_t Post #3

aka idmontie

Quote from Vrael
Cons:
-People who don't deserve minerals might still get them (staff could play favorites *COUGH COUGH IP/DEVILESK COUGH UNBANNED COUGH*)
What? Devilisk gets special treatment? No wai!
Quote from Vrael
-Not fun anymore, since you can hardly get any
-Only receive minerals once in a blue moon, or even less often
-Extra work for the staff
-Staff must first notice that good action B has occurred by Member A, and its likely they'll miss many
-members like Kame, that we still like (well thats debatable for some I suppose) but don't actually contribute anything like maps will never get any
-new members won't be able to get any
Agreed.

Quote from Vrael
-it's no longer a game really, it's a merit system, which we already have
We could just go back to elitism.
Quote from Vrael
-decisions about how many minerals to give for what action may vary between staff members, leading to inconsistency
-if there is some "Minerals Draft" for consistency within the staff, people will nitpick it
Like Devilisk?



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Jul 22 2010, 12:53 am Jack Post #4

>be faceless void >mfw I have no face

I got minerals but I can't buy anything, which sucks.



Red classic.

"In short, their absurdities are so extreme that it is painful even to quote them."

Jul 22 2010, 12:54 am Devourer Post #5

Hello

Already announced that I'll do the store soon. Once the system is working fine.



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Jul 22 2010, 12:55 am A_of-s_t Post #6

aka idmontie

Quote from Devourer
Already announced that I'll do the store soon. Once the system is working fine.
What type of items will be in it?



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Jul 22 2010, 12:56 am Excalibur Post #7

The sword and the faith

We were already discussing in the staff forum some changes to minerals. It was never the intent to have staff handing them out as the only way to achieve them. And since the store isn't even done, it doesn't much matter right now.

And I of course agree with most of your points Vrael.




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Jul 22 2010, 12:57 am Devourer Post #8

Hello

You better start thinking about it (which forum should give how much minerals and how many characters give how much minerals and all that) and create a discussing topic, ex, prolly will be done within the next three days :bleh:



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Jul 22 2010, 12:58 am payne Post #9

:payne:

I completely agree.



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Jul 22 2010, 1:01 am Demented Shaman Post #10



Quote from A_of-s_t
Quote from Vrael
Cons:
-People who don't deserve minerals might still get them (staff could play favorites *COUGH COUGH IP/DEVILESK COUGH UNBANNED COUGH*)
What? Devilisk gets special treatment? No wai!
Quote from Vrael
-Not fun anymore, since you can hardly get any
-Only receive minerals once in a blue moon, or even less often
-Extra work for the staff
-Staff must first notice that good action B has occurred by Member A, and its likely they'll miss many
-members like Kame, that we still like (well thats debatable for some I suppose) but don't actually contribute anything like maps will never get any
-new members won't be able to get any
Agreed.

Quote from Vrael
-it's no longer a game really, it's a merit system, which we already have
We could just go back to elitism.
Quote from Vrael
-decisions about how many minerals to give for what action may vary between staff members, leading to inconsistency
-if there is some "Minerals Draft" for consistency within the staff, people will nitpick it
Like Devilisk?
Those are terrible examples, Vrael. IP has too much integrity to abuse the system. He'd never just give out free minerals to anyone, even me who he plays HoN with everyday. if anything I would be discriminated against by the rest of the staff and my contributions would go unrecognized and unrewarded (as they already are).

So your con should really be people that deserve minerals don't get them, i.e. ME.

I don't get special treatment, I get unfair treatment. *COUGH COUGH* THE PLAN TO ABUSE THE SYSTEM AND CHILDISHLY JUST BAN ME FOR NO REASON WHENEVER I'M ONLINE *COUGH COUGH*



None.

Jul 22 2010, 1:17 am BlueWolf Post #11



Why would minerals be handed out to those in the community who are only socially active? It's just not fair to those who dedicate more time mapping, and only receive minerals for their completed maps. Even the current ranking system is geared more for the socially active.

Just add a little more focus for the mapping members.

Edit: I don't mean only to the socially active, but they'd still have more minerals than most. They'd be able to buy stuff from the store faster than those who actually spend more time mapping, and contributing with tutorial. Here is where I insert my suggestion of Completed maps with +x positive points receive a respective amount of minerals. Same goes with Tutorials. This is where the "like" button would come in handy.




None.

Jul 22 2010, 1:23 am Centreri Post #12

Relatively ancient and inactive

<3 Vrael. You're right!



None.

Jul 22 2010, 1:25 am Vrael Post #13



Quote from Centreri
<3 Vrael. You're right!
This is just too fucking weird. Wtf.



None.

Jul 22 2010, 9:29 am NudeRaider Post #14

We can't explain the universe, just describe it; and we don't know whether our theories are true, we just know they're not wrong. >Harald Lesch

Quote from Vrael
-it's no longer a game really, it's a merit system, which we already have
quoted for emphasis.

And yeah these are good points and thanks to DTBK we have a master plan which will get rid of a lot of the problems. :)
Stay tuned until we figure it all out and implement it.




Jul 22 2010, 9:56 am Demented Shaman Post #15



I think topics like these should be rewarded
http://www.staredit.net/topic/11618/
http://www.staredit.net/topic/11492/



None.

Jul 22 2010, 10:08 am Devourer Post #16

Hello

If anything then only with very low minerals as they got nothing to do with map making, sc1 or sc2 in general.



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Jul 22 2010, 11:19 am NudeRaider Post #17

We can't explain the universe, just describe it; and we don't know whether our theories are true, we just know they're not wrong. >Harald Lesch

If anything they should net you karma, which is everyone free to give you for it.




Jul 22 2010, 11:22 am Demented Shaman Post #18



Quote from Devourer
If anything then only with very low minerals as they got nothing to do with map making, sc1 or sc2 in general.
I'd say it's still contributing to the SEN community and its members which is just as good as mapmaking. One thing you people like to claim when saying how SEN is better than sc2mapster is how "close-knit" we are as a community, and I'd say it's things like what I've been doing are what contributes to that.



None.

Jul 22 2010, 11:30 am Lanthanide Post #19



What's wrong with my posts? :(

I think there should be a handful of 'automatic' things you reward minerals for, although it'll be tricky to check abuse for that. Like +10 minerals for your first (only first) map published for SC1 and again for SC2?

Contributions to the wiki should be counted, although again I can't think of an automatic way to do that.

One way to help minerals in the Map Assistance forums would be for the thread creator to be able to choose a 'best answer' post, much like on exerptsexchange.com (worst URL ever) and those other various Q&A sites. Maybe something like +5 minerals for the best answer, and able to give out +2 minerals to 2 other posts per thread? If the thread creator doesn't dish out the minerals, too bad, or perhaps a moderator could do so (at their judgement) if the thread is locked. This way minerals are accumulated without direct staff action, but you actually have to post useful information to gain them. Could be abused with people spamming lots of threads and awarding minerals to their friends - so maybe limit the # of mineral-qualifying threads you could create per day (so say you could create 2 threads in a day for minerals, but you created 5 - only the first 2 threads would let you distribute minerals to 'best answer' posts).



None.

Jul 22 2010, 11:47 am NudeRaider Post #20

We can't explain the universe, just describe it; and we don't know whether our theories are true, we just know they're not wrong. >Harald Lesch

Quote from Demented Shaman
I'd say it's still contributing to the SEN community and its members which is just as good as mapmaking. One thing you people like to claim when saying how SEN is better than sc2mapster is how "close-knit" we are as a community, and I'd say it's things like what I've been doing are what contributes to that.
I'm not one of them. To me SEN is mainly a bunch of elitists and spammers. There's of course exceptions. (I've deliberately overdrawn that)
I'm here because I needed mapping help and received very quick and qualified responses. And I stayed because I found excellent mapping resources with which to expand my knowledge. I didn't stay because of our "great community". But maybe that's just me.

In any case, my point stands. Doing mapping related stuff should net you minerals, doing community related stuff karma.




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