Many things, unfortunately. If Mapster supported the crack and is owned by a large corporation, like w/e Curse is, I would have liked to see Blizzard prosecute. But yeah, lots of shit goes wrong.

Because Blizzard doesn't CARE if they spread a crack for an unreleased game that doesn't hurt them. Just like they don't care that we hacked their SCI formats, violating the TOS. Yes, Vrael, violating TOS is illegal as well! SEN is already doing it! If CURSE NETWORK, an actual company which has to watch out for legal pits, supports the crack, then SEN, essentially a fansite, is safe.

And spouting bullshit about how supporting this one of many violations is going to get us into trouble is ridiculous.

Because Blizzard isn't wasting their time fruitlessly**

No, it is not. Blizzard Entertainment does not write law. It does give them the right to discontinue your use of the product I believe, but it is not illegal.

Hrrm. You might be right. Then again, since the beta wasn't on the market, maybe it wasn't technically pirated either. Neither of us is a lawyer, and you're dancing around the point: If Curse and everyone else in the world is doing it, there's nothing wrong with SEN doing it. Whether it's because they don't care or don't waste time fruitlessly, there would be no downside to having the crack.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-popularity.html

Doesn't work on me.

You're just trolling. Lol. Damn you, Vrael.

Blizzard doesn't care about logic or reason, so why should we? Taking some sort of moral high ground doesn't benefit us at all. In other words, what Centreri is arguing for seems to be more in SEN's best interest than the others.

They care about money, even though they dont really need much more.

Why should we base what we care about off of what Blizzard cares about? We have brains don't we?

Troooooooooooooll.

It's kinda hard to view it, but if someone is going to do an "illegal action" that's their problem. What we in the past have decided, and I believe that it still holds true to this day, is that we, as a site, will not directly support these actions but the user may do so if he/she wishes.

For example:

Starcraft 2 Beta.
We will not tell you where to download the client, the cracks and the maps to load it up and play in single player with bots. We will also not tell you how to do it or how to create it. But well all know that there are people who don't have the beta have gone to other sites, downloaded and installed the clients, cracks, loaders and maps to be able to play the game in single player, myself included. I could have also downloaded the editor, started a map and asked you guys for help. Nothing wrong with that.

The problem with "illegal" stuff is not the tiny things like SCM Draft or other modding tools that we used and supported during SC1. Those have never been a problem with Blizzard and will never be. The problem is with the serious stuff like distributing cd-keys, hacks that may give one play an unfair advantage like Map-Hack, hacks that during the old ladder would give you 9999 rating with 0 games played or 65535 games played. Game breaking issues.

This reminds me of when we started protecting and unprotecting maps back when Clokr_ released ProEdit. There is nothing game breaking about it, so it's fine.
Also, some of you old guys would remember this, but SEN has never been about how many members we had, how many maps our members made or how many maps our DLDB has. It was all about creating high quality maps and helping anybody who wanted to achieve this. We've expanded on a few things since then, but it's still the same deal. If I remember correctly, when Blizzard had a section on their site to link to dedicated fan sites, SEN was never there. It was starcraft.org, campaigncreations.com and some other sites I don't remember. We still did better than those sites.

TLDR version: Just make some maps. We aren't getting anywhere unless we do.

It's not a matter of what we care about matching Blizzard, it's how we go about what we care about. Blizzard cares about themselves and does what's best for them even if it's not logical. Likewise, we should do what's best for SEN, even if it violates logic and reason.

I do agree with what BeeR_KeG appears to be saying: we're missing the point. We shouldn't be trying to attract as many mappers as we can. We should be trying to attract the top mappers, and those who wish to join them.

To that end, we need to focus not necessarily on getting new members but on creating superior maps associated with SEN. This is the process that leads to someone joining SC2M:

1. Think, "I wanna make a SCII map!"
2. Google "starcraft 2 maps"
3. Join SC2Mapster

This is the process that ought to lead to someone joining SEN:

1. Think, "I wanna make a SCII map."
2. Do whatever. Doesn't matter.
3. Eventually stumble upon a map. Play it.
4. See that the intro mentions SEN.
5. Get amazed by the map's kickassery.
6. At some point, exclaim, "Holy fuck this is awesome!" or some similar sentiment.
7. Finish the map. Get blown away.
8. See that the credits mention SEN.
9. Think, "Wow, those people at SEN must be real badasses."
10. Go to SEN.
11. ?????
12. PROFIT!

This. E.g. Temple Siege (I think; honestly, I came here because Maplantis died :3 ).

It's happened to me with WC3 maps, too. And the loading screen mentioning SEN must also help!

The thing is... Maplantis has this. They have advertisement screens, they have in-game models advertising mapster, and they have a ton of great mappers. Who are doing this. For mapster.

Because of the administration's slow beginning, we have no maps in production that are good enough for this 'plan' to work. So while saying 'Make maps to help SEN' is right, it misses the point that brings it all back to the administration - we don't have any great SCII mapmakers. Mapster does.

I'd really stop trying to 'compete' with mapster. It's a waste of energy. Make nice maps for your own enjoyment. If you don't finish them, at least you enjoyed making them. Making them because you somehow think that you'll help save SEN is just pointless. And, if, like me, you're at SEN for the community... Enjoy it!

Again, SC2 comes out in a few weeks. Spreading the crack means absolutely nothing now. Once the game is released, we wont have to worry about a SC3 crack for another decade anyway.

That's right. It's too late to do anything now.

I doubt administration would do anything different if an SCIII crack came out anytime soon though, so no lessons were learned for both sides. So really, useless for all!

I think we'd take a closer look at the pros and cons of spreading it. I still don't see how us spreading the crack would have helped us grow, however. The fact is we weren't prepared for SC2 early enough, and we wouldn't have been even if we did allow the spread of the crack. Most of our members who wanted the crack got it elsewhere and still came back to SEN regardless of where they got it. And with the crack, they're still not as productive.

Centreri is absolutely right in that we just don't have the great map makers SC2M has. We have a handful of people actually making SC2 maps on SEN and a small fraction of that handful are coming up with maps comparable to SC2M's (or most other map-making communities for that matter).

My hope is that SC2's release may change that after we see an influx of members getting used to the new systems and coming up with very cool concepts. Ultimately we need to evolve. Without giving too much away, big things are planned for SEN that will be revealed as early as next week. The new plans wont help us become the best SC2 site on the net, but it's a start.

When it was brought up before I tried to remind everyone of the distinction between places like GameThreat and SEN.

Now I think we can agree GameThreat and SEN are almost nothing alike, GT being hack, exploit, and crack concerned. It is a slippery slope going from 'just the crack' to a host of other programs that SEN has never been one to support. You take one step in that direction and its not long before you start hosting other 'utilities' that we would've never supported before. If we had hosted Oblivion here we'd have had a lot more views/downloads/unique visitors, and maybe some of them would've seen our mapping areas and gotten into them. But the cost of that, associating positively with Zynastor, Oblivion, and just being known as a site to support hacks would have made it a bad trade. If you remember the SC game list insults we were getting, 'Op SEN is full of hackers!' was one of them and I can show you bot logs of people coming in, saying FUCKING HACKERS YOU SUCK DIE and leaving. The hacker stigma is a bad one and hackers and crackers are regarded as one in the same as they have been for years.

We need to keep perspective on what SEN is about, what we have always been about, and what we are willing to associate ourselves with. There are sites for cracks and hacks and there are sites for mods and maps. We should never have to wonder where we stand between the two.