Corbo's PR Plan for SEN's Improvement "CPR SEN" (Pun intended)



Part of why other communities have prospered and SEN has stopped has been promotion.
Someone with the proper vision of leading SEN into something people want to check out should be appointed as a PR administrator or representative, giving this person too much power should be dangerous itself, though, he does have to have some moderations powers to ensure things go on the right track and relations with other sites aren't endangered.

The first step to improve SEN is accepting that SEN is no longer a good mapping site. It's old, outdated and it doesn't satisfy SC2's mapping needs. Morever, even when some time it could be said that it had the popularity of having the best mappers and best modder, SEN, simply, does not anymore.
If you cannot accept this DO NOT CONTINUE READING.


Public Relations shouldn't really be enclosed to "relations with other sites" but also how well does SEN lets itself be known to the public. Propaganda? Is SEN at the state of being some elite site in which you must have invitations to become a member? If you accepted the previous statement you'll know it's not.
Propaganda is the key to getting newcomers, new, active users that found, while browsing the internet some SC2 content that SEN users have made, that SEN is actually a nice site. They decided to check it out and checked out what was going on with the site and decided to join.

How do you achieve this?
Easy. With a nice propaganda plan. By making videos about your work, map trailers and even the most retarded test map or trigger you do might impress someone. One could promote SEN by adding a "staredit network" video logo before the main video. Of course, the video logo has to be aproved and you might actually not want every single crappy test have the staredit network logo, there has to be, of course, a quality control.


Relationships between sites. Of course! There's nothing wrong with a site promoting another one on their news. There's nothing wrong with sharing content, in fact, you could create competitions in between sites and they both get benefited from them. I was just talking to IP about Nibbits as affiliates and here's a quote:
The reason why SEN took so long to affiliate to Nibbits? You can ask Ex and maybe he can come up with some grudge-like conclusion.


Relationships between the community?
Believe it or not the PR representative (let's not call it admin for a while) should take care of all of the community's... bitching
Harsh moderator is behind you? The PR should check your case and conclude something. If the moderator IS abusing you he is to notify the administrator to take care, not actually do any moderation itself (see why we're not calling him admin?)
Why? Simply because if the PR doesn't have the power to abuse it, he won't. Think of it as a mediator. Should also relief the admins from getting mass PMs and filter some retarded PMs off them so they can focus on more important things.
Why this? Simply because if the community is not satisfied, they won't feel like working, they won't feel like improving cause there's nothing motivating them. If there's no work being done, what propaganda will SEN make? What work will be promoted and most importantly, why should I as a pro SC2 map maker stay at SEn if I'm going to be the only one doing anything at all?


I've mentioned some aspects of what has to be done, there's much more than this but now I'll relate this aspects to what a PR admin should do and should be:

He should be:
- Someone with a vision on the future. Someone that can imagine and can do what it takes to get new members on SEN and make them stay. Maybe it's not in his power or ability to do the required things to improve SEN but it'll be his job to point them out. i.e. SEN needs a new DB, the PR obviously can't do it, but he'll tell the one who can that a new DB is needed because new users don't have where to submit their jobs.
- Someone who has people skills. Someone who is convincing, someone who knows what he's talking about and that people will follow on.
- Somone who knows SEN. Period.
- Someone who is willing to put behind his personal feelings and do what's right for SEN, achieve the right connections and of course, he has to know where and how to look for them.

He has to do:
- Achieve external relations
- Achieve promotion, promote SEN externally via any possible method in order to bring new users
- Has to mantain the community, make it improve and keep it happy.
- He doesn't have to moderate SEN per se but of course has to take care of it in the sense so SEN feels like a nice place, and not as a spambox, flamebox or anything hostile.
- Must have an internal recognition. Globe perhaps? So that people can contact him and not think he's a regular member.
- Must interact with other communities and places, keep things updated on what's going on SEN but of course he is allowed to do it. Maybe some sites don't really like advertising? either disguise it or why is this site your affiliate? What are the benefits you're getting from it if it's not propaganda & sharing?

The PR is someone who cares about the community and someone with not so much power that he can abuse it or become a gigantic douche after a while with that many power


Here's the Plan:
- Creation artwork. Quality artwork. Loading screens for.. when loading a map? duh? Imagery for inside the map, you can display the SEN logo as a button or as a signature somewhere in the screen. And of course the creation of a video logo. Also design them in order to allow the user to customize them whenever he wants.
- Creation of propaganda plans. I'm not going to detail this but just to give a VERY broad idea this could include the creation of a "work report" in which you could gather information to create videos or a magazine (think SEN observer but actually get it done)
- Make the community happy. Make your users feel important. Seriously? Last 7 news topics: contest, release date, contest, map night, contest again? Who the fuck cares! If you go to staredit.net you'll find a lot of information about a site that you don't know, but what if they showed you information of something you could be PART OF?
Say the PR News, like, twice a week, of the work being done by members already. Centreri's map is awesome blah blah blah check it out here *link* Payne's map's done play it here *link* Here are some screenshots of us playing it *pics* This will make members want to BE in the news and show newcomers what SEN is doing without having to lurk the forums very deeply. This will make members work more to get news'd since they actually have the possibility of being in the spotlight. This also mildly creates a quality control cause then members will start competing against each other in order to be in the spotlight. A simple tiny square is NOT ENOUGH. Before I got banned I made sure funguscraft would be in the spotlight for 4 straight weeks in the future and it did. Did anyone even notice it?
- New affiliates. Talk to people outside. Invite others to check on SEN, tell them what SEN has to offer.

Nothing of this will work if 1. SEN doesn't have anything new to offer and 2. SEN Member's don't do crap.


I'm posting this (Or not?) from below my banned, quitting, grave. I said that if I was asked for I would help and that all you had to do was contact me. Here's my help.
I'm just pointing out some of the many things SEN's missing. Offering some solutions while I, of course, can't do everything.

I honestly would love to be assigned the position and very much honestly IP was already offering it (right?) and I am obviously the one with all the ideas but I understand two things. 1. I left. 2. I didn't leave particulary in good, mature ways, instead I left in lulzy, "free gifts"-giving spree ways
And I don't want to be IP's next excalibur where he randomly just picked up a friend to be admin and everyone wtf'd on sight, IP's a nice guy, he's cool, he does favours, it's not his fault. But I instead, want the community to hear the proposal first. I want to listen and take you guys into consideration, thing that I would do too.
You may also just appoint somebody else, or not appoint anyone at all, that's okay, I have already informed you of the problem and did my share. I'll continue with the life I've always carried and won't QQ in my bedroom's corner or cut deep into my veins.


Hope you appreciate that even DEAD I help you and take this post gladly with no bashing intention whatsoever.
It's been nice having the opportunity to talk to you guys again, bai.

CAWBO'S BACK? THE IP-VIRUS STRIKES AGAIN!

I nominate Corbo for PR, assuming he comes back.

There is much SEN needs to accomplish before we can consider ourselves back in the game again. A lot of hard work, sure, but I sure as hell hope we have fun doing it. And we should have fun doing the stuff we love doing, whether it's mapping or modeling or graphics or coding or just being a part of the community. It's only a little step to turn that into something that benefits and advances SEN.

Quite an epic post by corbo. I do hope we can find someone someday who can dedicate that much time and energy into something so intangible for SEN.

I already outlined my problems with Nibbits in detail. It was never about a grudge, zeeg allows some really bad shit to go on at his site. I merely called attention to it, and suddenly I'm the bad guy because of what he lets happen at his site.

You can view all the details of the discussion I had with zeeg here if you have any doubt as to my claims. Nibbits is facilitating a cycle harmful to the mappers who use it, and is generally the opposite of SEN with its quantity over quality stance. That has never been what SEN was about, and that shouldn't change for anything, SC2 or otherwise.

This is a requirement very few people seem to meet these days. Starting on v5, even being pre-ML does not mean you know SEN. Take IP for example, with all his inactivity spurts, I feel hes become quite detached from SEN in some very bad ways.

I really don't think so. PR admin and community admin are two different things and we need them both. This proposal is merging the positions together and I really don't think that's going to work. You'd need a super-admin like Moose or Yoshi and in all probability we're not going to get someone of their level.

I also don't approve of the several shots at me throughout the post.

There is no 'ideal' man for the position. So for how long will we keep looking?

So true. Even moose wasn't perfect, but he was very close.
e.g. he didn't respond to my PMs some years ago.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on May 11 2010, 8:30 am by DeVouReR.

Impressive post, Corbo.
I agree with most of the things he said, but do we really need to become like sc2mapster?
It looks like most of the points you've mentioned, sc2mapster apply them, and seriously, when I go on their site and I fucking read their propaganda like "zOmg, here at sc2mapster, we take care of you, so we are providing a new (glitched and sucky) dldb section on curse. Yes, that's right, we take care of you, now love us and stay here, slaves!"

It seems like the banned ones always have the right perspective on things. Well done, Corbo.

Agreed.

Ex.. please do us all a favor and just shut up and stop arguing.
We don’t want to know what we can’t do, we want to know what we CAN do.. It is your behaviours and attitude that keep us from exploring new potentials, and frankly, the community does not care if you approve of this anymore. TBH, I’m surprised he took a shot at the Map night revival, too…

What Corbo said is right. This is a critical moment where things must be done. I’ve been advocating for a move towards newer people, newer features, and risks. (I’m at work right now, so it’s not the best moment for me to copy and paste links… but I’m sure you guys can find it). We’re never going to get anywhere without doing anything, and both nibbits and sc2mapster have shown us the dedication and speed in which people can work and create new things… While we’re all just sitting here doing nothing (ironically I’m posting this much text.. but hey, I’m hosting map night, judging contests, and making wiki edits)

I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again, we’re being over-conservative, and we need new staff!! The PR representative is a great example of what’s lacking on SEN, and I feel that corbo has only touched one of many required staffs that are missing. Most big companies have internal and external personal relationship reps, one for getting people’s attention to SEN, and the other for hosting community events.

I’m also curious whether the “mediator” position is a key to our success. It is obvious that any new movement is discussed and discussed for a long long time (i.e. devourer/jaff for admin). Not only does this distract people, it would be a lot easier with a mediator to point things out to admins.

Ideally (yeah, ideally), the mediator is really good with interpersonal skills (ON THE INTERNET), and is able to be Trusted by everyone. I also feel that it’d be even better if 2 or 3 people are PR’s, because, with the growth rate of SC2, we really need all the help we can get. Moreover, we don’t have to worry about their abuse, as they would not have much moderation powers. I think this is the perfect time and place to try new things and appoint new staffs. There'll never be an Ideal person or team.

In introspect, I personally would be thrilled to be in this position (especially if it’s internal rep). I love the community, I love making maps, and I have tons of experience on dealing with Excalibur (lighten up, will ya?). But, I probably won’t be the ideal one, as I tend to “let it loose” on the internet (again, this is a gaming forum… please remember that ), so I would seem immature to some people at times. I have also not been at SEN longer than most people, but trust me; I can work very well in teams. And I can definitely put my feelings behind me if I’m required to (key words: required to).

Well, -proably- some of the staff members will be hating me for this: but UU is actually right in nearly every aspect (I agree on around 90%).
And Ex, sorry, but yea: stop being negative and change your attitude, your current "baww no big changes, too many immature people bawww SEN sucks if it's not serious"... sucks and is just -in my eyes- totally stuffy.
Sure, moderators must be serious but...
#1: without spammers there is no job to be done
#2: SEN could/would be boring after time

also, if we only want serious members we'll...
#3: lose members
#4: won't get many new members
#5: won't be that popular

If you want a very serious website you should not be on a gaming website, but that probably got something to do with the SEN-Roots. I cannot say much about that. Still, if we want to get popular / more good members we must change something.

I'll tell you gentlemen the same thing I had in my signature a few days ago:
Hundreds of active users gave us the SEN we have today. I will not throw that away simply because would please the battle.net simpleton more if I did so.

SEN can retain its values, its unique nature, and what makes SEN, SEN and still be a good SC2 site. We may never be as large as Nibbits or Mapster, but size has never been SEN's goal. We can be a lot larger than we are now, but it would be exceedingly hard to keep SEN's identity and grow to the size of those sites.

I'm sorry UU but I can't just shut up, that's a favor I can't grant. I see some bad things going on, I think it best I voice these concerns to make sure we don't make any mistakes.

I'm sorry UU, but I don't support you for the position. I'd like someone with better English, more time at SEN, and has already been on staff awhile to take the position. I hope you understand this.

I'm being realistic because I want SEN to succeed. All your optimistic hope talk is going to end with us being over ambitious and failing. I agree SEN needs change, it needs new features and new things. But I was explaining something to IP last night:
It wasn't until I had to go and moderate S2's HoN forums that I realized how special SEN is in how it does things on a day to day basis. The HoN staff were restricted heavily, were told what they could and couldn't say to users, were told to leave a problem alone if fixing it would upset absolutely anyone. Reports went unanswered, entire sections were flame pits, and S2 just didn't want anything fixed in the name of it possibly hurting sales. On SEN, we do everything we can to solve every issue, catch every ban evader, keep order. And that's not being overly strict, its not being mean, its doing our jobs. We're not part-time moderators who should only answer reports when we feel like it and only get involved in an issue if its convenient. If we were the more serious issues would never get handled.

All that is SEN is not code. SEN is not lines of code or URLs. SEN is the sum of everything from the coding, to the people, to the history. I really wish you guys would start respecting just how many people had to work at making this site, shaping its policies, and actively contributing to it for so long so you'd have it to go to today.

Even in the SEN > Mapster topic, take the PM reading issue for example. Sixen went through Mapster members PMs on a whim. IP has never done such a thing and Moose has only done so for matters of security. Do you see the difference in that? The outrage Clans had about an admin reading his PMs simply because they felt like it rather than for an actual reason? That's a very SEN-like attitude and it isn't incorrect or bad and Clans isn't a bad guy for thinking that way. We've always respected our members privacy, trying to keep a private message private.

And so I will tell you what I told IP: We need to adapt to SC2 without losing what makes SEN special. Anyone can go and create an SC2 mapping site as Mapster has demonstrated. But SEN has been around for years, we've been at the top of UMS at various points. Why are you all so quick to throw that away? All that is SC1 is not bad, that's what got us to where we are. I'm saying these things not only because of what they mean to me but what they should mean to all of you.

Again, this isn't a matter of serious, its a matter of quality. If you think I need to go somewhere else for a quality SC site, perhaps you should question why you're here as well.

SEN needs change, it needs features, it needs the right staff. What will absolutely destroy it is losing its identity in the process.

I'm also not against the idea of a PR admin, I've been supporting it. But it has to be the right man for the job, even if we can't get an ideal one, we need a capable and proper one. Corbos proposal has a lot of good points in between its subtle shots at me and trying to merge PR with community which just shouldn't happen. I have valid concerns about what he posted, and if I truly had anything but SEN's best interest at heart, I would not be posting about the potential problems I see.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on May 11 2010, 8:09 pm by Excalibur.

According to everyone's views, nobody will ever be good enough. Even Moose wouldn't have been good enough if he was just now stepping up to be the new admin. All in all, unless people of SEN are willing to take risks, this site is going nowhere. Take the risks, the offers and ride the waves. Where ever you find chaos and disorder, there is always life that is creating that chaos and disorder. Without the two, there is no sign of life and without life, you have nothing.

Also, if Corbo didn't like to fuck around so much and do stupid things, we all know what I am talking about, he would be perfect for the PR position. Who always wins the Fad award?

I agree with LoveLess. I first suggested Farty as admin, but that kind of got nowhere. I then suggested Devourer, but he is too immature and unexperienced. Then Corbo shows up, but he is also too immature. Then UU shows up who is also, as I expect people to say, too imamture and inexperienced. Devlin is pending for the 'old and wise' admin role. Do you honestly think that if we chose at least one of these people things would get worse? No way. IP will always be there (and he is active now, which I like a lot). We will always have GMods as the parlament.

Just pick one. Or even two: one for PR and one for the wisdom, as DTBK suggested. We have a reasonably large community and have plenty to choose from, unlike other communities, I imagine. Stop procrastinating.

Ideally, we wanted Yoshi to come back and take the position. He gave us a maybe.

Please don't assume the staff, (Me and IP have been talking about this for days), haven't been discussing this among many other things Lovey.

JaFF:
If Farty will commit to being PR, I'll support it, but Farty has always been a bit odd and I have no idea if he'd actually do it. Secondly, I don't trust IP to be a balance for anything anymore. He's so worried about SC2 and so paranoid because of Mapster being successful he will literally promote anyone to anything and unban anyone if he thinks it will help SEN. I want to help SEN, but the costs he's willing to pay are not ones I can agree to. I just explained above how we must be careful about preserving SEN's identity throughout this transitional period.

If Yoshi won't come back and be PR for us, Farty or DTBK can handle it (If they want to that is.). Community admin should definitely go to DevliN barring any unforeseen people who declined changing their minds.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on May 11 2010, 5:56 pm by Excalibur.

I support Corbo, could I be his side kick?

And there is nothing wrong with Nibbits, Zeeg, or Azala.

I think he learned his lesson after you.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on May 11 2010, 6:19 pm by ClansAreForGays.

That's basically how you got your position.

You claim you want to help SEN? So do these people, yet you claim that SEN will somehow lose its identity if they are appointed. You're also immature and, unlike the candidates, zealous about your beliefs. You lack flexibility in your thinking, which is why I read your posts and see SEN rotting away in snobish hypocrisy if people like you were in charge.

IP has the right attitude now: fuck what the staff think, do what is needed. Unban devilesk and Corbo? -OK, if they contribute. I and the other mods may not like it, but hey, if it works, go for it. UU's views and Corbo's views are extensions, slight modifications and continuations of IP's views, hence they represent what is going to happen eventually. Accept it.

Notice how quickly I got demoted? I readily admit my admin promotion was a mistake at the time but it allowed me the opportunity to become a much better SENner and a much better moderator. It was a bad decision that amounted to some good in the end. Though I could see how it could've gone a lot differently as well.

That's not my claim, JaFF.
I think they have the right intentions but the wrong ideas. I openly said things on SEN need to change. I'm just concerned about what we're changing, how that affects the community, and how that changes the SEN we've been building all these years. We do need a PR admin, we do need a community admin, and they do need to be the right people. I've discussed both in public and in the staff forum the people I believe are qualified for these jobs. And in response to your later comments, note that I never put myself among them without immediately saying that I was unqualified for it afterwords.

I know I'm a zealot, I get worked up too easy and I take SEN far too personally. I care about SEN too much for its good or my own, but I try and change that into something positive, or at least that has been my goal. I'm sorry if it either looked like I had a different aim or if I'm just not getting there fast enough for you. But I am trying.

This implies the staff have no idea whats needed. I fail to see how after IP coming back after such inactivity he would have a better idea about whats going on and what to do then the people who have been here every day.

I'd rather he unbanned Corbo than devilesk, but both of them? I think that might be a step too far.

We dislike it because we don't think that is the best thing for SEN. And saying 'Oh well IP thinks like this so I should just roll over' is a cop out, and I would not be doing right by SEN to take such a stance. Part of a staffers job is to comment on, advise, and help the administration make the right decisions. That was part of the premise of my promotion if you recall, advice.

I'm not disputing that in the end IP can do whatever he wants. I'm saying that I'd like to try and help him make the best decision possible. I'm not always going to know what that is either, but I try and discuss everything openly and understand both sides. I understand this paranoia, this fear, the looming arrival of SC2 and the state of SEN. I'm trying to effectively weight those things into my decisions, but I will not let that fear or paranoia make the decision for me.

What I am about to say is based on years of observation, and honestly I don't think anyone would disagree with me, not even Ex.

Ex has very strong opinions. He looks down upon most people. He is prideful and arrogant. While these may be fine qualities and lead to the desire for a small, isolated, and elite community, I do not think this is the direction SEN should head in. Closing our doors to those that do not meet Ex's standards would do us more harm than good.

There is no reason why we cannot maintain a level of high quality while also striving for quantity. SEN will always maintain its identity even with new members. Even if it didn't so what? There's nothing wrong with change. All communities change and evolve over time. The excuse that SEN would lose its identity is just a negative form of elitism caused by a fear that change is threatening and that new members will usurp the role and status of older members.

Unless many more current members of SEN start getting involved in SC2, then SEN will need to pursue and attract new talent and others that will contribute.

Many of the staff have not voiced their opinions (if any). And I fail to see how he does not have an idea of what to do. I think his ideas generally make sense, at least what I've seen so far.

I may not like what he does, but no matter what I say to him, it does not matter the slightest. The only person on the site who can influence IP is Moose, it seems. Sure, I can oppose him, but I know he'll do as he pleases.

I honestly hope IP will just appoint one of the reasonable candidates in the hyperactivity frenzy he's been having lately so that we stop bitching and at least get a temporary solution. If we wait for too long, the momentum will be lost.