New version (2.0) uploaded. Fixed lag issues by revamping many things. I elminated like 120 triggers =]. Also a few balance issues here and there. I think the map is getting to final stages =] enjoy! let me know what you think

so not too much is happening with this map. i decided to up the cost of the unique unit and reimburse certain civilizations...it seemed the best way to balance the units.

Also i was considering using the missle turret as somekind of auto refresh for farm minerals or a one time refresh of them...but there is nothing of the sort in the actual game. Aside from queueing up farm replacement at the mill. I think it might come of sloppy. Opinions?

I was also looking at the wiki for AOE 2 and considering some changes. Maybe just a different version of the map with some civilizations swapped out. I'd like to do the celts (woad raiders) maybe the byzantines and a couple others. And some other thigns caught my eye considering race specifics. such as certain civilizations not being able to recieve certain upgrades or somehow giving some some groups 2 for 1s on some units or reimbursals for other things.

Lastly i was kind of bored and considered putting in a voting option at the beginning of the game to choose game mode. The three i remember from AGE2 are normal (the way it is now), king (where you have a king [and maybe a couple guards] and have to keep him alive while killing other kings) and one where you start off w/ a rinky dink defense of walls (not stacked) and a couple gates...so you could have defenses and time to build up. This would put an emphasis on siege fights...which i like to do in game but normally doesnt happen unless i specificially build walls around an opponent to force him to use battering rams and trebuchets to kill my walls/guard towers/castle garrisons/gates

The game looks good i would love to help you test it, I'm on almost every day so just message me when your hosting and ill be there.

It's difficult to understand how to play. The in-game tutorial isn't very helpful in explaining anything other than what building turns into what. Your warcraft 3 conversion makes a lot more sense.

ya it is definatly complicated. but i'm not interested in dumbing it down. I want it to be an intense game where your attention has to be on every detail. I thought the tutorial covered all game aspects. Lumber. Farms. Forage bushes. Fishing. Where to age up/upgrade. Where to tribute. Where to enable stacking. What else could it possibly tell? I mean pretty much everyone knows how diplo type maps work. You build unit a and get unit b. I've recently put more buildings into the tutorial area. like what the castle is to try to hint to people that...hey....make this it is a castle. and look it can have a garrison! and i'd be willing to wager that your special unit comes out of it too! It definatly takes a couple of plays to get good. But one play is enough to figure out the mechanics and what does what. Average bnetter...probably not. but the bright people here at sen? i think so maybe =]

thats cool that you like warcraft though. I was gonna try to do that terrain switch deal to it because the terrain on that map sucks assholes.

It's fine if you make things a little complicated, but by the sounds of it, your in-game tutorial is insufficient and lacking. There's a difference between complication and lack of information to learn. If you attach a steep learning curve, you should expect to attach a tutorial that will help people overcome that hurdle of difficulty.

I figured a "make your base look exactly like this one" picture would work...but yall really think that they can't click the spire, say hmmm this is lumber, then click the shield battery next to it and say hmm lumber camp by lumber. and then mimic that. Well. i guess i'll have to beef it up. I suppose i could do a hands on tut. HEY YOU! YA YA YOU! BUILD THIS! it would be a pain in the butthole but i spoooose it could be done.

what server do you play on?

east but i think you're on west

yeah i am

Here's the final version. I decided not to do regicide and deatmatch modes....kinda sloppy. Also interest in the map has dropped which saddens me because i was trying to make something that competivite players could sink their teeth into and host often. Whatevs!

I'll probably update eventually with a special edition (SE) version w/ some different civilization and what not.

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dude..... honestly that sig link was amazing! you almost gave me a heart attack with its brilliance

There are to many little things to look at and upgrading diverts too much attention away from the game and lumber mining as well; I think all of these combined together make it difficult for people to host often/people joining often.

i just don't buy it man. not for a second. Take Lotr la. Very popular on bnet. Anarion. game starts you have to:

Build Castle
Begin unit upgrades
Send dropships to pick up rangers/ent
Send dropship to pick up cold drakes
Send all marines to white to protect against brown/yellow rushes.
Check to see if yellow has forgotten to bring shelob into his base and if not try to kill her.
Sent ent to Orthanc and help block entrance in case yellow naz rushes it
Send drop ship to grab eagles in north
Use same drop ship to grab eorl above easterling
unload all bunkers to block rear exit of base and exit near minas tiril
Send anarion to correct position near osgiliath in case it gets naz rushed
Send dropship with DTs near anarion to help w/ nazgul rush.
drop eorl by bridge above minas tirith so he can rush down and hit nazgul if they come but not get sniped in a dropship
position ghosts and cold drakes to take down yellows defense near minas morgul


all of these things happen right when the game starts. So....bs. If i and many others can play this map competively in large numbers then AoE isn't that over the top. it just takes a few plays to get used to...as do most maps. imagine when the fisrt lotr map hit. Ppl probably had no effin idea what was happening. and when you first play any map is it doubtfull that you will wreck everyone. that's not always the case of course but for many maps it is. I just played diplo empires for the first time the other night...i've played TONS of diplo/civ maps and i sucked ass.

I'm not saying this map deserves anything. It justisnt that fun. But as far as difficulty as a factor in its fall...i just don't buy it. But i'm over it because people seem to be enjoying the warcraft maps and i'm having fun porting it to dif tilesets =]=]=]

Lol. About wc3 rock quary, I forgot which two bases they were, but it was a human starting place and an orc starting place in the top right hand corner that are really close together. It looks further in the editor, but in game they are too close.