Path per Reaver could potentially take up a lot of space and locations, but I suppose there's no other choice.

By latency, I mean the move update delay you mentioned. I'm still not sure if it's the Random Suicide AI script or a small mistake in the triggers.

I've explained it a bit more in this post. I don't know whether it holds true for this system, but nor does it matter. It is independent of whether this delay occurs or not.

As for the storage paths, I have some ideas... They need further development and some tests with scarabs. I'll get my head around it tomorrow. One thing, though: the point when making a path per reaver becomes unacceptable space-wise may be well beyond the point when the scarabs you hold eat up all the weapons prites.

I couldn't understand the post.


I'm confused. If the delay doesn't matter, couldn't you just use the previous method?

I'm just wondering, does it matter if the scarabs are moving left to right or right to left?

I was talking abotu the delay in updating the move order, not the delay in creating a new reaver after the old one shot his scarab.

They move to the Generic Command location, which is at the top left corner by default. Since SC checks units left to right, it will first take the older scarabs, which is what we want.

Edit: Actually, never mind.

Post has been edited 10 time(s), last time on Sep 8 2009, 6:43 pm by Tuxedo-Templar.

Wow this looks sick as hell if it actually works, which the preceding posts say it does...so this IS sick as hell.
Only thing is I don't really get it and I'd like to understand it/be able to use this system but the maps that Pyro posted don't work for me, as in I can't download them for some reason. So I was hoping if someone could, maybe make and post a quick test map of this so that I can get my hands on it and learn how it's done.

Ty all & Pyro & Tikels (if you didn't steal it)

I tried out both versions (one with only Random Suic AI and one with only moving over blocked terrain) and yeah, it works. My test maps are kinda shitty, though:

(I challenge you to recreate them without peeking at mine, though )

Did you try the version I posted in this thread? And what exactly don't you get about it?

Thanks templar for the posts, but for some reason Pyros Human Scarabs map will download for me now lol. So I looked at the triggers and it seems pretty simple...sorta. You just collect scarabs, then move them to a location, then move them to the player location where you want them to go and then move them to an unwalkable location so that they explode? Is this right?
Also, why is the same trigger repeated like 32 times for the same player? And do you need to use five reavers, so that you have like 23400 scarabas? Or will only 1 or 2 reavers work? Also, when the scarabs explode, do they dammage your own units as well? I would think not since they are your own scarabs.

So those are the bulk of my questions, all of those and just in general the process of how exactly this works. Hope ya can help me Jaff ;p

Play around with it yourself and find out. As you said, it's pretty simple stuff.

Guys, I've past through this whole topic (again) and there's like too many specific informations here and there for my poor brain.
Could someone try to, for once, clarify this whole thing?
And also, editing the DDS wiki in order for it to contain this new system would rock

I'm still wondering if I should use HumanDDS or ComputerDDS... what are the differences, etc? And what is all that discussion about storage? We can store them in a 1x1 tile, yes or no? It seems like we can, by that it has some downsides, what are they?

Thank you for help
Your beloved payne

From my understanding, it's not necessarily "human" DDS so much as just that it can be human. You would still want to use a computer player (or possibly one of the neutral players + a human player via. a trick I figured out) to ensure indiscriminate scarab damage (remember scarabs won't hurt their owners).

The 'computer' DDS system sacrifices much of the usability of a whole computer player slot in the game (meaning it can't properly use its units with the constant Random Suicide ai spam that's needed for the DDS effect). However it makes the scarabs with proper stacking and without the explosion effect, making it look like true direct damage.


That's how I understand it, at least.

My way may not be the "correct" way, but it has worked fine for me so far, especially since I wanted the exploding scarab sprite to be seen as an effect of my "spells."

Essentially I have the same reaver setup, a bunch of reavers in a row with targets to shoot the scarabs at. In my map, triggers collect the scarabs and move them all to a 1x1 location, generating a "pool" of scarabs, which my spells can then draw individual scarabs from. So far, the scarabs have stacked fine just by being in this 1x1 location, but as I think SelfPossessed has pointed out, there is some rare side-effect of this method, where occasionally one might not do damage or stack correctly or something, but this isn't a big deal for me.

So far I have not witnessed any side effects of scarabs stacking wrong, or triggers moving a scarab which does no damage, it works perfectly for me, but consult JaFF or SelfPossessed for their (likely more accurate) results.

As I understand it, the differences between human and computer DDS are as follows:

Human DDS scarabs will not damage their own player, computer DDS scarabs will.
Human DDS scarabs show the explosion sprite, computer DDS can be implemented so that you never see the scarab explosion.
Human DDS doesn't require a "random suicide" AI script.
Human DDS damage can be upgraded by the player throughout the game.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Sep 18 2009, 1:30 am by Vrael.

Thank you a lot for these infos, though I feel like there's some points missing, but that's still very great! Once again, thank you
In order to deal, let's say, 100 damage on an enemy with scarabs doing 5 damage each. I'd need a lot of them ;o
Using the human method... having all these scarabs exploding at the same time might produce some lag, no? Also, would all the scarabs explode at the same time or would I get a very long death animation? ;o

In the new map I posted in this thread, you cannot have moving stacked scarabs, hence each reaver requires a separate path.

If I get the time and motivation, I'll edit the article. Don't expect those two conditions to be met soon, though.

Oh so that's the mechanic behind the scarab stacking? I didn't get to check, but I thought it needed the AI as well.

With the "human" DDS approach, by the way, you should mention in your tutorial that giving the Reaver to one of the neutral players after it fires its scarab (which also gives the scarab) allows it to damage the player's own buildings.

Post has been edited 3 time(s), last time on Sep 18 2009, 10:03 pm by Tuxedo-Templar. Reason: typo

Which one... you've posted hundreds

The one from this post. It's the latest one and it's called "HUMAN_DDS".

Could anyone confirm that those informations are the only one I should know in order to decide which system I'll use?