I've always wondered why the dirt to rocky ground was always blocky... xD

Sorry...random...

Anyways, I could help with any blocks you are trying to get past, Excalibur.

I'd like to see the new terrain, it might save me a lot of work.

yes mneox did a nice job considering. A few little oversites that could have been prevented with a little overlook by the map creator but still very good.

as for 1.5 dieing well you really don't play it as much as you need and your updates are even slower than moose's updates. Not to mention you've recently said your losing intrest for a while which to us means "I'm not doing jack unless i'm bored out of my mind one day." So you've cut your small fan base to near zero. I honestly can't believe temple siege didn't fly off page one before it was bumped back up. There is zero discusion going on in it.

As for recruiting the bulk of TS'ers like moose says they will resist change. They don't like it and don't wana see it. It is not until it is about perfect in their standards that they will compete on it. Personally i think stronger spawn is a step in the right direction and you new heros have made great strides and are now quite good. I think the new terrain would help bring people over problem is you guys didn't get it out fast enough. Now moose wants new terrain also. So idk if that will draw people over or not.

I would say the majority of good players still want a perfected M3 which they precieve as classic temple siege. Honestly i think this needs to be beat in terms of quality to draw in the good players which in mapping terms is perfection with new things to draw them in. example : terrain, balanced stronger spawn, a revised captureing system, balance to all skills (including more useful skills a few such as engineer are still lacking a bit), and overall more appealing. Maybe Need to devise a way to make nexuses more appealing and more strategic.

I think you nailed most of the major problems in that image, Moose. Simply fixing those would vastly improve the balance.

One small thing is that there should still be a side entrance to the South base. That's simply one of its facets; you can bypass the first sets of cannons if you need to. You said to wall off the original entrance, which is fine, but another needs to be added, then.


As for the off-temple healing: it works in DotA because it takes time to heal, based on how hurt you are (leading to nested victories if you continually dominate someone in a fight). I don't think it would work as well in Temple Siege, although it would be much better than what we have now, where someone can base sit and play great defense with any endgame damage character: Volt, LM, Assassin, Ling.

However, that would mean that the bases would need to accommodate a heal in between the teleports and the temple, a sufficient distance away so that it doesn't amount to the same thing.

As for using Protoss Air for LM L2/L4, it's a decent idea, but it doesn't solve the LM's mobility problem. It's still slow as hell and thus countered hugely by any stun+ranged. pigy_g put together a Dragoon barrage spell that looks awesome, uses observers for the effect so that a DT may be detected, and seems to fit very well as an L4, if doubled or tripled in duration. Making the LM an invincible Reaver for 15-20 seconds after the spell would probably be a great idea as well, because it creates functional power while also preventing masscasting the spell (provided spells don't work in Reaver form). I'll let him post the map when/if he wants to, Moose also thought it was pretty nice.

As for these, I've addressed a bunch already but the rest are here:

Moose didn't get back to me yet but here's what I was thinking to try and equal the distances between this outpost:

The big arrow pointing towards the south base is where I'd like the entrance to be. You know, even with both sides instead of much easier for the south team to use. Maybe it would be better if I gave some rough outlines to work on instead of a big drawing.

I am very much interested in seeing this.

Some more changes and things for anyone who's wondering. The south base unit placement will have to be redone to fit the new outline. Side paths I feel will offer new tactical opportunities.

I'd like the time to point out this to whomever terrained this map:
If you can't do something, don't half ass attempt it 20 times on the same map. Multiple cliffs need to be done a certain way, it isn't easy, but if you're going to do it, do it right. @_@

Good job exacalibur I am blown away very nice, though the extra outside is not needed...but still goddamn very nice.

ummmm... protoss ground and protoss air... read the previous posts first , like how i said l4 would be a carrier... so l1 and l3 are toss ground, l2 and l4, toss air.


exactly the reason why i suggested we change the lm base unit to something like a goon... and also, changing the lm's l4 also doesnt help his problems at all, since most lms will still continue to spam l2 and maybe get l4, but only use it when ppl attack them... so it isnt gonna fix the fact that most lm's are just going to go mana and l2/l4...

- I'm not a fan of the hideouts that your terrain creates above and below the side warp gates. The map is already pretty large, even in a 3v3, and I don't think those would be used much except for being able to run right by already-captured gates. That kills a lot of strategy in trapping someone, because there's just too many places to cover.

- On the south base, you have one set of cannons that's out in the open serving pretty much no purpose because of the alternate routes into the base, and the other two sets of cannons are almost on top of the warp gate. I really don't like the layout of this at all, I think most people would prefer it if you simply copy and pasted the older warp gate terrain as a whole piece up and to the left about 10-15 spaces and then blended it in nicely with your superskills. -.-
- On the top base cannons don't guard it at ALL, you can just go around. That's absolutely terrible.
- On the path to top base from South, still clusterfuck-y.
- For the north base, just move the geyser up and to the left, at the top of the ramp and up a few spaces in that corner. That about equalizes it with South's geyser.
- IMHO remove inaccessible "pretty" terrain, especially north, east, and southwest.

- I do like the path that you made below mid, because that opens the assimilators almost equally. (However, cut off some of the rightmost water to really equalize it.
- I like the double ramp to the assim, could definitely see that being used strategically to sight off the cliff.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jul 11 2009, 9:37 pm by FaZ-.

Mind marking these things on the picture? It's a little hard to understand in text.

ummmm... protoss ground and protoss air... read the previous posts first , like how i said l4 would be a carrier... so l1 and l3 are toss ground, l2 and l4, toss air.

Sorry when I read the post where you said, Sin L3 was op'd, thats when I stopped reading 99% of your posts. My apologies.
[/quote]

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Jul 12 2009, 1:15 am by Doodan. Reason: merging posts

Sure, done: http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/3527/tscritique.jpg The red X's mean get rid of this, it's pointless.

plz quote me on this... i said sin l2/l3 combo was too good of a counter on lm, since he had no way of seeing the sin and therefore could not avoid a l2/l3 combo...

With much of Yoshi's additional help, this is the most recent update for the new terrain.



Any discussion for change of THIS terrain, please discuss in THIS topic.

URL Link.

Volt L1 is still broken in fixed M7 version, scourges flying around that hit and stun even after Volt is dead+left.
DT L1 is still broken, he became Observer.

Also, as to the Volt L1, why not just make the hit location the size of a scourge...? It's way too small now.

Reps available if needed.

AUUGGGGHHHH!

Indeed, I will enlarge it.

I'd appreciate them.

Go back and read your quote, you claimed the sin L3 was "Op'd" too lazy to go back and find it. Point is, he can do this to nearly everyone not just LM. Essentially, what you are saying is that the sin L3/L2 combo is overpowered in general. Again, please cut the inexperienced talk, this is not flame.

ok, if you're not going to quote it, i don't believe you. and i've never said sin l2/l3 combo is op, only against lm, because then the lm basically has no where to hide is what i said. there are many other chars that can counter it, if you're not going to quote me, then don't try to keep your side of the argument...

Assassin Bug is at 21:30, by Purple.
http://www.mediafire.com/?li9ztmqdasd

I (Red Warrior) catch a scourge at 13:25 and at some one time. You can try to figure out which cast is causing it. =p
http://www.mediafire.com/?cx1im8un2mt


At the DT L3/L2 combo: it's a huge counter against LM because he's faster than the LM. Most other characters can see the DT's shadow and just avoid it.