How will seperating the races work?

I'd like to propose not separating the races and letting people use whatever cards they want from any race.

I feel excitement for a new forum game.

A) Seperate races. From a business perspective, if this were to ever catch on, you'd be forcing koreans to buy multiple decks. People who play with friends will change the rules and use whatever. Competitive play should have stronger backbone.
B) If you do plan to do this for profit, you're going to want to contact blizzard for copyright laws, possibly a job with them on developing it. Quite easy success.
3) Keep to starcraft. No buildings, you lose.
4) For simplicity, rid of armour/ attack types/ sizes...

tweak accordingly.
5) Micro cards should be limited. No 'vulture gay' or 'morph drones to exceed limit' or 'land on unit to crush.'
6) Use vespene gas. Must build refinary obviously, screw anyone not willing to count both.
7) If you do want to include attributes, make a damage chart. with unit names on top and left. left is attacking, top is attacked. Show how much damage dealt in box.
8) Make attacking relative. 1 second of ingame damage. (May fire twice, but that is balanced)
9) Use research to use splz

That wouldn't matter if there were limits to a deck. Like limiting a certain number of cards you can have in one deck. Then they'd choose wisely not to overload on micro cards, since it is quite useless without units.

Think MTG. White deck, Green deck, black deck, red deck. etc.

No gas? No armor?

Why?

Well, it doesn't matter....
What will be the winning conditions? Destroy everything? Destroy a Wonder (Xel'Naga Temple, Overmind, Psi Disrupter, etc)?

If destroy everything, the MTG blocking system is inoperative. What are you blocking? Can you actually block in Starcraft?
The winning conditions is destroy all buildings, but, remembering that you won't have 50 units in 50 cards in the board.....

You must think about the following.... How to draw cards? Three per turn? At the end or the beginning?

And about spells...... I think that is better to have creatures with abilities (Dark Swarm, preventing ranged damage for a few turns, Psi Storm, dealing dps to at most X units......). Spells should be globals, like "All ground units have an extra attack this turn", or "Your next mineral income set is increased by X(%)" as New-.Hydrolisk said, etc...... Supporting the player nos just pump units up.

You talked also about "a few counters...." I think there will be more that that. How will be the damage assignment? Damaged units doesn't full regenerate every turn like in MTG, so also you can make a not-copy of that mechanic.....

I think this game will be played either with many dices or many counters (also a little paper token-like will do), for damaging purposes. And even a little more complexity....Splash damage. A ggod idea to replace splash damage (example with Siege Tank) is giving the unit the option of assign its attack power between any number of units. How about it? I guess you've thinking the same, haven't you?

You mentioned the sad fact that in almost every TCG the luck has a protagonic role. SC doesn't have luck role (well, perhaps in situations when you are exploring to find expos....), and I guess that it is quite simple to annul luck.

I suggest to make two decks for player. One deck (maybe replaced with tokens if you don't want to print, say, 30 Marine cards...) where having the constructible things (units, buildings....) and the other deck is like MTG (luck dependant), where putting the "spells" for micro and macro control. It's just an idea, I know you must be advanced in your mechanic, but if not, maybe you may reconsider it or take them for another playing mode, I don't know....

The thing I like the most is the requirements-upgrading mechanic from Starcraft.... I'm very curious in how will you resolve that.... As my suggestion, and considering that upgrading is a core SC feature, you should traduce it at perfection in your card game......You must do that in several forms, and I guess you already have one, but personally I would make upgrading exactly like in SC. It's quite simple, but takes a lot of text.

And I don't think quitting size/attack type/whatever cute SC core feature should be prudent.

The one lack you maybe will have is that the cards will have tremendous text. But it will be only the first "edition" (supposing you are going to separate editions....), or maybe the first copy of each card, like MTG when in Alpha they explained even the "tap" mechanic in each card.

It could be like this:

NAME
atk(icon representing the attack type) INTEGER armor(icon) INTEGER shields (icon) INTEGER hp (icon) INTEGER
picture
TYPE OF UNIT - SIZE OF UNIT
TEXTBOX including habilities and maybe flavor text

It's important the position of the attack/def/HP values, as the player will stack his/her cards and any of the values may be obstructed by the card on it.

It'll be interesting if you could explain what have you done until moment, detaching your already engineered mechanics so we won't give you unnecesary suggestions (and also you might ask for what are you lacking of).

Did you think about the mineral card suggestion? Cards that lasts for a few turns and needs a worker to extract minerals, with a X amount of resource? How about the repair mechanic? X HP to buldings or mecha units at cost of no mining that turn for the worker??

Please reconsider adding gas......The game is a little dull without it.

Also, the game mechanic for get buildings and workers is also a little monotonous....

I think you may elaborate them a bit more. The beginning of the game will be as melee in SC? with a Command Center and four workers? If so, you should consider the adding of gas for strategy and diversity. Also, you should design a rule that stands for a determined number of turns in which you can't attack. You may even include the expos mechanic with a few legend in workers that reads: "Tap: Roll a twenty-sided dice. On fifteen or more, draw a resource card an put it into play. If you do, put three exploring counters on Worker. As long as Worker has an exploring counter on it, Worker doesn't untap in your untap phase".
Or something like that (too much, boring text, but it's the cost for adding mechanics).


Just suggestions.....


Whoa....I've written a lot....I'm a card games nerd!!!

But, there's something else I gotta say.



I knew that. SC works in space, so I thought you could elaborate a terrain system. As permanents card that stand for terrain, and that must to be played at the beginning of the game, or not. As example of the second, "Hole in ground"

Hole in ground
Terrain

When Hole in ground comes into play, select a building you control.
Ground units can't attack selected building.
When the building you selected is destroyed, shuffle Hole in ground in you deck.

And bigger variations, etc....

This type of card can be in that "Luck-based" deck I mentioned.....

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Mar 18 2009, 2:10 pm by Yawgmoth.

Yawgmoth, no.
That terrain idea... shit.Damage shouldn't be rolled on a dice. Keep it StarCraft relative. Zerg heal per second right? And terran buildings burn per second. If you do everything by 'per second' you get a balanced damage. Fast units, low damage do their 'equivalent' to a slow strong unit.

Have everyone start with Nexus, Hatchery or Command Centre. No need for blocking. If they said 'marines attack barracks. Vulture attack Command centre.' You'd say 'tank shoot marines, marines shoot vult'

this would mean you calculate damage at the end of both turns. If you both sent X against Y (XY YX) damage would be calculated by micro cards, quantities of X and Y, upgrades and if all are equal, mutual destruction.

Spells should kill adjacent cards, same with splash.
[x][x][x][o]
[x][-][x][o]
[x][x][x][o]
[o][o][o][o]

Limit units to 4x4?
Buildings don't much matter, most spells have no effect.

Curious.... Are you sugesting that players keep track, in seconds, of all of their units, attacking and regenerating, in a card game? I expect that you are meaning traduce that in turns....if not, what are we talking about....

I've never said nothing about rolling damage.... I said that damage an unit has taken has to be stored in a dice, or write it down in a paper, or with tokens.

Starcraft relative? Is there in Starcraft some parameter named like...."Terrain"? Terrain is Starcraft relative. If there is nothing about terrain, there is not Starcraft relative. Keep consequent what are you saying.

Oh, and about the combat phase..... ClansAreForGays mentioned he would make a version of the MTG type...
That's not Starcraft, neither. You should make a variant, recalling that SC units deals their damage reciprocally. Remembering distances, melee units, and cooldowns makes me feel uneasy about their translation to the card game's world.

As a suggestion, CAFG, you may consider the possibility of including priorities (active player attacks passive player's stuff, only assigning where to attack, then defensive player assigns what of the attackers attack, damage assignment, damage resolving, etc....)

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Mar 18 2009, 3:08 pm by Yawgmoth.

1 turn is equivalent to 1 second for things such as regeneration, damage, burning.

By starcraft relative, it's meant that what X does in Z time, Y can do more, less or equal in Z time. Do not just say Zergling attacks 20 damage because they are weak.
Terrain is indeed something StarCraft has. It is not changeable mid game, nor is it necessary. The game could of been made on just white background and still functioned.

I interpret your X, Y, Z as the equivalence for cooldowns. To include them into game, I guess that it may be like "This unit can assign its attack value up to three times to the same target in a turn", for the zergling instance. For bigger cooldowns, taking Siege Cannon as example, it would be like "When this unit attacks, it doesn't untap during your next untap phase".

Terrain is not changeable in mid game? Can't Terrans migrate to another locations? Of course is perfectly valid to think that it's a very complex mechanic to implement considering the changes it would cause to the gameplay.

Something cute for Stim Pack, in the Marine Card:

0(energy symbol): Put three Stim counters in Marine. Marine deals INTEGER damage to itself.

As long as Marine has a Stim counter on it, it may attack one additional time per turn.

Very MTG-like but effective, I guess.

Great questions yawgmoth. I'll take some time to answer them since they are things I have already thought of, but haven't gotten to because I'm still working on defining the structure(which would answer those questions deductively).
I'm playing with the idea of armor in my head, but I am leaving it out of the build for simplicities sake. Gas is currently being replaced by non-mineral costs (discard X cards, etc.)
Well, it doesn't matter....
Wonders will only be supplemental. The winning condition is to destroy all enemy buildings. Although, some of the more powerful wonders(and heroes) like Overmind will have the draw back "if this card is destroyed, you lose"
There are 2 'settings' a unit can be: 1) Front Line 2) Base
Currently this step is a just a MTG rip-off(see future goals), How this plays out depends on the setting. The attacking player attacks with their Front Line units by tapping them, and the defending player chooses how they will block with their front line units (he can gang up on an attacking unit, but can not block more than 1 with a single unit.). If there are attacking units left over after the defender declares blockers, the attacker may assign any front line or base unit/building to block his attack(like provoke in Magic).
???
Draw 1 at the beginning. I'm thinking a refinery should have the ability - tap, tap 2 probes: Draw a card.

I'm afraid fro simplicity I will have to totally copy that mechanic for now. There will be too many cards on the field, and the game goes from simple to crazy with 100 counters on the field. It only worked in pokemon because there were so few cards.
But hell, if what I want to use the counters for fails, I could atleast try it(later).

Splash is an attribute for a unit with a number next to it. A unit may assign up to that number of targets for it's attack, the draw back is that it must target units of the same type that has blocked it.

I'll dwell on this.

If I have to resort to counters, this looks good

That mineral card would fit with my mechanics. Unfortunately with the MTG-like regen this is unnecessary. But things like this make the counter idea better and better in my mind. Once again though, for this first build and simplicities sake, I can't.

The HQ has the ability to search your deck for a worker, but you may also play them from your hand, and they are cheaper that way.

A few things to address here. First, expanding. Long story short, after much thought I've decided want this to be how you shuffle your discard back into your deck. When you've expanded your . Also, I might as well talk about what I want to do with counters. I want counters on a unit to consistently tell a player 1 thing about that card - How many turns it has been facedown(and sometimes faceup) on the field. This will probably be the most original thing in this TCG. This method of keeping track of time will be crucial to my 'incubation' mechanic, where certain additional costs and requirements for cards will be atleast/EXACTLY/atmost X counters on the card for it to activate.

That's cool, you could do choke points and such. I could see terrain cards having to remain in the deck front-side up, but when they reach the top of the deck, they immediately are played. Still, not until I have a game that works even without terrain.


Answering these questions required me to completely rethink how the battle step will occur. So much that I couldn't even fully answer your question on it, but I feel like I'm on the right track at least with it now.

Got it. Try then to make a good "1st edition" for the SCTCG. I anticipate really a good future for this project (with the corresponding dedication, of course is a lot, lot of time).

Some few points....(not really, I'm very good at babbling......)

Design Goals:
1) To have the game feel in some way like a game of StarCraft

Take this present..... If you make use of the MTG battle step, that point will not be fullfilled.


This is just what i was saying. Very good variant. But, the drawback is that in SC you don't select which unit is damaged. This step makes me sense like I am using a los of battle rams to attack and mobile walls to defend.

Great mechanic with both lines.


Add the stupid gas!! Discarding card as pseudo gas is weird, and means that you'll have 10+ cards in hand and that's uncomfortable.....also that makes you take unnecesary decisions about discarding stuff....

Just suggesting, it's up to you to decide but I would add it. SC without gas is like MTG without swamps.


This rocks.
The draw back is not understandable for me.... same type? referring to flyer/ground I guess. I'm still thinking that is not necessary to use the MTG-like battle.


So are you planning that a player has 50 unit card on the board? That's what i was meaning. I've emphasized the 50 cards.
And if you are going to use two lines of defense the game can extend for hours.


What the.... Are you gonna use the MTG regen system??? Use the counter system. How are you going to beat a 1500hp regenerating hulk with those zerglings that deals 5 damage thrice per turn?? Will you need all the attack power and beat the big units and buildings in one attack? What about the units that deals more damage than little units's hp? That would be unfair....


You should explain well the facedown mechanic. I have my own wonderings about that, but it'll be convenient if you could explain what is the reason of that method. To me, it sounds like the game's Fog of War. Though that will be illegal in a card game. Everyone would cheat.

Take on count terrain for future releases.....I understand that it's horribly difficult to make all the mechanics of a card game, but consider it. it's interesting and novel.

If you have 'unglued' type cards, I will never touch this game ever. Unglued is a lame thing added in MTG and is retarded as all hell.

QFT!!!!

It wouldn't be too hard to add gas/minerals to the game, just make cards that give it to you, kind of like this or something:

Vespene Gas Barrel
Adds 1 unit of Vespene Gas to your Gas pool (Think Mana pool, but minus the Mana Burn.. or something similar to a 'pool' of some sort)

Or something like:

Vespene Giesure
Must build refinery/extractor/assimilator
Adds 5 units of Vespene Gas to your pool (again, something similar to a 'pool')

Hell, you could easily incorporate minerals as well if needed, such as this:

Heavy Mineral Formation
Limit three SCV/Probe/Drones per Heavy Mineral Formation
Adds 3 extra minerals to Mineral Pool for each SCB/Probe/Drone attached to Heavy Mineral Formation

And you could make SCV/Probe/Drones like this:

Zerg Drone
Mineral Haste: Adds 2 extra minerals to Mineral pool when gathering resources (call it whatever you want, mineral haste just gives me the idea that Zerg are quicker because in the game, they are a bit faster at doing things than both the other races)
Insert other various info here

This seems really interesting, I'd like to help out if possible.. I still don't like the idea of Unglued cards ("Your hydralisk explodes, causing 10 damage to all players. Rip up the card after used"...That's fucking retarded if you ask me) and they'd add unwanted and rediculous gameplay (imho)..

Is the first post updated to the latest mechanics of the system?

I just read the 'special' section and came up for an idea with the 'overmind':

Zerg Overmind
Zerg Overmind comes into play tapped. While Zerg Overmind remains untapped, grant haste (of course using haste from MTG), trample (same thing, but maybe use a SC term?) and first strike (again, taken from MTG) to units placed on the field. Zerg Overmind taps at the beginning of your turn. Zerg Overmind cannot be target of spells or abilities unless field card "Psi Generator" or Protoss Dark Templar are in play.


Since this is a 'special' card, you could easily incorporate cards that 'untap' like instants or such or maybe even 'artifacts' that would continue to keep cards untapped.. So you apply that car to the Overmind and BAM! Hast, Trample and First Strike to all your units and it keeps that ability at the start of every turn because your Overmind remains untapped.

That would be pretty dope if you ask me.

Unglued is intended to be exactly what it is. A joke. You're not supposed to take the cards seriously and I doubt many people actually play with them. Especially when you consider they're pretty much banned from every tournament except the one in your moms basement.

Also the stupid cards are as expensive as the normal. And they're not so funny. Well, maybe the 99/99 one, but is b******t.

I still don't undertand why CAFG doesn't want to add gas.....

I was wondering about the text of complex units like vessels, ghost with an armed silo, or an arbiter..... I'm getting anxious to see the cards with the text and pictures!! I'm gonna show off what my mind developed as a Terran Vessel because i'm a little bored....

Terran Vessel (icon representing the unit size)(HP)(ENERGY)
Mechanic Unit - Flyer

Detector (As long as a Detector is in play, cloaked units can be attacked, blocked and targeted by spells or abilities).
Terran Vessel can't attack.
5(energy symbol), tap: Put six Irradiate counters on target Organic unit.
10, tap: Choose up to four target units. Those unit's shields and energy goes to 0.
10, tap: Choose target unit you control. Put four Matrix counters on it.
Whenever a unit with an Irradiate counter on it attacks, it deals 3 damage to all the attacking creatures that player controls.
A unit with an Irradiate counter on it is dealed 3 damage on each turn.
At the end of each turn, remove an Irradiate counter from each unit with an Irradiate counter on it.
As long as a unit has a Matrix counter on it, prevent all damage that would be deal to it.
At the end of each turn, remove a Matrix counter from each unit with a Matrix counter on it.

Phew!

The arbiter would be more weird (and tedious to make a card.....)

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Mar 19 2009, 3:51 pm by Yawgmoth.

Because in a TCG, it is better if you don't have a lot of things to calculate- or make it complicated. Please, if you really want to add all of Starcraft- why dont you just PLAY starcraft?