Gameplay
This map is basicaly a remake from the original Custom Hero Wars, which I feel has great potential, however lacks various elements of a professional map. I am working on added unique spells, improved spell triggering, upgraded selection systems, random options, balancing to mathematical perfection, kills to gold, improved spell casting system, spells information system, special FX, sound FX.

Progress
Layout - 100%
Terrain - 5%
Ideas - 95%
Triggers - 70%
Sound FX - 75%

Misc spells

Teleport - 4 seconds
Brilliance Aura - +30% mana and regen
Bloodrage - 30% chance to kill 3 enemy creatures instantly
Evade - Passive. Random invulnerability for 2 seconds every 15 seconds
Estates - Gains more gold from kills
Heal - 5% chance to heal your HP from kills (units killed in splash damage dont count)
Shaman Blood - Improves the power of your spells
Soul Steal - 30% chance to steal 100 mana from enemy triggered spells

Defensive spells

Morph - Transforms you into a Queen for 5 seconds
Silence - Stops enemies from using spells for 2/3/4/-5- seconds
Evade - Invulnerability for 2/3/4/-5- seconds
Repel - Repels enemies for 2/3/4/-5- seconds
Distortion - Influences the movement of enemy heroes for 2/3/4/-5- seconds
Poison - Influences the movement speed of enemy heroes for 5/6/7/-8- seconds
Berserk - Weakens and berserks enemy heroes for 2/3/4/-5- seconds
Dispersion - Instantly kills 3 enemy creatures or summons

Offensive spells

Fire Tower - Summons 1/2/3/-4- Siege Tanks
Wolves - Summons 5/7/9/-11- Broodlings
Critical Strike - Passive. Randomly generates Scouts
Replicate - Generates a replication of your body
Ignite - Summons 1/2/3/-4- respawnable Firebats for 10 seconds
Lightning Bolt - Summons a respawnable Guardian for 10 seconds
Fire Arrows - Summons 1/2/3/-4- Ghosts
Laguna Blade - Summons a Battlecruiser for 10 seconds

Ultimate spells

Haunt - Makes a replication of each enemy for 5/6/7/-8- seconds
Convert - Sacrifices the life of summoned creatures to generate a powerful Wraith
Vitality - Heals you and all your allies to 100% life and 100% mana
Death Attack - Generates 3/4/5/-6- Mutalisks
Reincarnation - 50% chance to respawn your hero if you die
Shuriken - Transforms you into 1/2/3/-4- powerful bombs
Diffuse - Stuns enemies for 2/3/4/-5- seconds
Detonate - Instantly kills all summoned and generated creatures

Heroes
Marine - Head Hunter
Goliath - Goblin Techies
Tank - Sniper
Zergling - Blade Master
Hydralisk - Lich
Ultralisk - Minotaur
Zealot - Bloodseeker
Dragoon - Destroyer
Archon - Skeleton King



Post has been edited 7 time(s), last time on Apr 19 2009, 1:03 am by MetalGear.

Some initial thoughts... (don't hate me)
Misc spells:
Brilliance aura... how would you accomplish +3 armor?
Heal... WAY OVERPOWERED, especially for ling, archon, and rine.
Time effect: what does that mean?

Defensive spells:
Evade: you have the name evade for two different spells; might want to change that to prevent confusion.
Repel: how do you plan on doing that?
Distortion: How do you plan on doing that? Giving that hero to you? If so, that's pretty overpowered.

Offensive spells:
Fire Tower: better make sure the tanks have only 1 damage upgrade... 4 tanks is a lot.
Ignite, lightning bolt, laguna blade: 10 seconds seems too long for a spell...looks more like a summon.

Ultimate Spells:
Nothing much to say here... have to play to see.

Other thoughts:
I highly recommend changing the name. Give credit to the original author and the map of inspiration (custom hero wars), but change the name, or people will think badly of you.

If you're going to revamp the map, making the terrain not suck would be a good start. I like the spells though, happy to see no more Rejuvinate/Frost Nova.

sticky, I'm willing to bet he's doing Distortion sort of like the way Earth Demon's Burrow Drive works in TS: Create an Observer or something over the target, move the target to the Observer whenever the target's not under the ob. If you're not doing it this way, you should. Otherwise, op as fuck.

Also, you should add a spell that creates an Arbiter (0+0 damage and no spells) above your hero for a few seconds for cloaking. And a spell that creates a transport could be cool.

brilliance aura is a mana regen aura. very easy to trigger.
heal only activates on 10% of kills. its not really that cheap?
time effect resets the spell cooldowns.

good point on evade, i may have to change that.
repel works by forcing the enemy heroes to move in the opposite direction.
distortion works by moving the hero back to its original location if it tries to move out.

as for the offensive spells, yeh i will have to consider what you said. i guess they are more like summons. just limited.

i cant wait for you guys to see the ultimate spells. they are so cool to watch. especially convert, which for every summoned unit killed, gains 0.5 seconds to the ultimate summon. oh and shuriken is going to be a really fun spell also. this is how it will look.

Shuriken demo picture


hmm i was going to use the name CHW as i feel as thought i owe it to the map creator? if i change the name, wont that be like stealing his map?


yeh ive taken out all the really cheap stuff.


good idea i wil think about that


theres already 2 transport spells. teleport and morph.

wow make a better name...
for pete's sake....

Chill out first.. go out with sm friends and have a few drinks...
come up with a clear idea first...

stop.. seriously.. STOP .. copying other ppl ><

.. You went from... some Dota copying name.. to Shuriken.. to Hero wars 2009 .. to Custom hero wars.. Give me a break!!

lol yeh unfortunately originality is my weakness. im creative however it is limited by my logic. for some reason, as unholy suggested, my maps are just lifeless despite all my good triggering work and concepts. maybe someone could help me out by designing some interesting terrain for the lane and hero arena? its not much to ask i dont think. oh and any ideas for the name? i feel bad stealing the CHW concept and then renaming it

I see no problem with REMAKING a Map, All you used was the concepts, So all you really need is maybe a little thing in the credits like "NameHere For the Concept, And Creating the Original CHW Maps", The only thing that would be wrong is if you took the old CHW map, edited some things, and renamed it, but since you completely made the things in the map, there no problem...

And honestly, Name it whatever you want, But please don't have the same exact name.. Its your Version,Concept of the Original Concept, So give it any name you wish, "Hero Wars 2009" sounds perfectly find, But you really shouldnt worry about "Stealing" Since all you did was use the basic concept, and made it your own, Your perfectly fine in my book. ^-^

Make it so the different teams can't see what each other is picking, it's very irritating when they just wait for the other players to pick.

thx. i will start thinking of a new name
at the moment its a shared system. however, the heroes are well balanced, theres no cheap dark archon spells and theres a random option, in which case, the enemy wont have any idea what hero you have. besides, it shouldnt matter too much about the hero. its mainly the right combination and usage of spells that will win you the game.

HEY! lets have a balancing lesson!

LESSON 1

okay so lets say you got 2 units to balance, a DT and a Zergling.
DT hits 24 times in 30 seconds
Zergling hits 84 times in 30 seconds
calculation: 24 / 84 x 100 = 28.5%

LESSON 2!

first off, set a default damage. in this example, lets suggest the Zergling deals 100 damage a hit. we need the DT to be dealing much higher damage to compensate for his 28.5% attack speed. if we want the perfect mathematical balance, this is how you do it.
calculation: 100 / 24 x 84 = 350
OR
calculation: 100 / 28.5 x 100 = 350
Zergling damage = 100
DT damage = 350

at a more basic level, to show you this system really is accurate, lets suggest the DT deals 42 hits in 30 seconds, which is exactly half the hits of the Zergling, at 84 hits. we obviously need to double the DT damage to balance him.
calculation: 100 / 42 x 84 = 200
200 is double 100.

LESSON 3!

lets suggest that the correct mathematical damage upgrade for a unit is 15.7. however, the editor doesnt allow decimal places, so we need to convert the .7 into HP instead. this is how.
suggesting the current HP of the unit is 550.
calculation: .7 / 15.7 x 100 = 4.4%
so .7 is 4.4% of 15.7
calculation: 550 / 100 x 4.4 = 24.2
so, 24 is 4.4% of 550.
calculation: 550 + 24 = 574

Class finished, you are dismissed

Ah.. MetalGear Sensei..
You forgot one of the most important lesson in balancing...

If you were to take a completely mathematical standpoint in creating a map, everything in theory may work, but in practice, it will NOT be fun.
Same with balancing. If you don't try it out yourself and play it enough to understand how your theories all work together during practice, you will never achieve balance.

It is a game. Try to take on it through a gamer's aspect.. not a math professor's aspect.
It's time to take a sabbatical, metalgear sensei.

Yes it is... Especially for the Archon, which splash-kills like crazy... The "Heal" is basically a very very very strong invulnerability spell as far as I can tell, especially for heroes with splash.

Regarding Math Balancing: Spells, unit speed, team situation, passive effects and environment are just some of the aspects it doesn't take into account.

very true unholy. my strength in this stuff is that im purely mathematicaly minded. however, like you suggested, its also my weakness, which is why im considering partnership in maps.

no not the way i trigger. if the hero does splash damage and kills 3 units, it will trigger a limited 10% chance, not 30%. also, i could just make it 5% instead of 10%?

good thinking, however i have already taken these considerations into account and other factors. for example, i gave the tank a 15% HP reduction as he can summon siege tanks that share his upgrades. also i gave him 15% damage reduction because hes a ranged unit. however, i gave him back the lost 15% HP because he is countered by 3 other heroes, and the countering heroes i gave a 15% HP reduction, which theoriticaly gives the tank a 30% advantage over those counter heroes who reflect some of the damage because of their armor.

You don't take into account that the Zergling can chase down fleeing enemies with low life, run from offensive spells far more easily, and not be microed by just about every ranged unit in the game. If you try to balance purely by damage, you're going to fail miserably.

Completely retrigger heal. Using it as a passive heal spell based on a percent chance will not work. Maybe when you gain a certain amount of kills/xp?

wel as ive just explained to quite some extent, im not balancing purely by damage. please read the post before posting.

how will it not work? i just send the kills to cash system through a set of randomized switches. easy.

He means Heal will be OP. It would work from a technical viewpoint, but impossible to balance.

Its like this. Heal will freaking make Speed a HUGE issue.

Lets say you have a Firebat hero, and a Zealot Hero.

Now, on a 1 v 1 ratio, lets say you perfectly balance it. They run at eachother, and kill eachother at the exact same time. Good balancing job (in your mind).
For a feeding scale, The Firebat has Stim, and splash. The zealot... Maybe may have some speed at running, but just equal to the firebat. Eventually, all heroes will be able to get enough damage to 1-hit KO the spawn. At that point, the firebat is way overpowered.
For the First reason, Heal.
Lets say on an average, (Because of the spawn, the splash, the 1 hit KO, and the stim) that a Firebat kills 100 guys in 1 minute(60 seconds for you, you little mathematical laddie.)
And for the Zealot, (Because of lack of Attack Rate, Lack of splash, Some walking speed) that a Zealot kills 20 guys.
In a 10% chance to heal on a passive spell, your Firebat will freaking own, while the zealot will be pathetic.
The Firebat(Having a 10% chance of healing EVERY kill, will probably heal 10 times, if it works out correctly.)
The Zealot (Having a 10% chance of healing EVERY kill, will probably heal 2 times, if it works out correclty.)

THe ONLY way you could possibly have this be balanced, is if the player with the firebat be SO Unlucky that God himself is trying to fuck the player over, so that chance works out that he heals only twice for the 100 kills he got, while the zealot (also having a 10% chance) Gets so freaking lucky that people think he is hacking, because chance works out that he heals every time he kills.

Face it, The Heal is overpowered, and It favors the faster attacking + Faster moving + Splashing units

-------------------------------------------On a slightly better (But still bad) Note...

1) Really, you're so unoriginal that you can't even come up with your own Hero names? I mean c'mon, at least name them Bob and Jerry or something.
2) It is good to re-vamp things if they are in serious need of repair. The first few versions of Hero Arena were horrible, there was always 2 guys that were literally over powered. (I know, I as a player, took advantage of it.)
Had he not re-vamped it, the map would have failed miserably. However, CHW is fine and is tinkering along. Leave it alone.
3) If you ever need ideas, ask people. There are plenty of people out there who have way too many ideas for themselves, and cannot make maps fast enough to keep up with their idea output rate. (Me being one of them). Do not waste your time feeding off of someone else's map.
4) And For god sakes laddie, you cannot take such a robotic, analytical, mathematical, and emotionless approach to Map making.
A good map is like a small child: It needs 5 things: Love, Care, Kindness, A shit load of triggers, and breast feeding.
5) I liked the colors you used to post this.


---------------EDIT----------------
Btw, Broodlings are horrible wolves. If you can, making them lings or something, much more wolf-like.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Mar 1 2009, 12:28 am by Pyro682.

About Heal: If you only used Organic units, you could change it to spawn a Medic and put a cap on the number of Medics.

Also, I agree that you need some more original ideas. And why is the Goliath called "Goblin Techies"? I know you love stealing things from DotA, but come on... There's only one...