I'm fine with a discussion, as I can clearly see you are doing.
Does it not say in St John 17:21 "that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that world may believe that thou hast sent me," implying that not only Christ is in the Father (the Godhead, three distinct personages) but that we may also be in the Father? If Jesus Christ is in the Father, couldn't he himself be considered a God? Didn't he live a perfect life, and isn't one of his goals for us is to have us made "perfect in one" (St John 17:23)? I have other questions for you: To whom does Christ pray? If he himself is God, as you say, is it necessary that he pray to himself? Or when he was baptized, who is the voice from heaven?
Also in Hebrews 1, Jesus inherited a more excellent name than the angels (Verse 4) and is in the "express image of his person" (Verse 3) agreeing with his words, "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father." (St John 14:9). I do not find, in these scriptures, that Jesus Christ is literally God, but that they are distinct, one in purpose and glory.
@Clans, I assume you have a problem with the Law of Tithes. Many do, but those who keep the law have found blessings come from their sacrifices. I wouldn't necessarily call the church "money-oriented" but rather the members are actually willing to give up what they own for the benefit of all members, especially for those who are incapable of making a sustainable living. And what about Joseph Smith makes him so terribly flawed? Everyone makes mistakes, and he is no different. I don't think, if he was terribly flawed, that he could have done the work that was assigned to him. Without him, the Church of Christ would not have been restored and (I believe) the people would not have access to the saving ordinances that have been established from the foundation of the world.
Well then the Trinity does need explaining then. Jesus Christ IS God, but he is also the Son of God. They are three separate parsonages who are one in the same. As in Jesus is at the right hand of God, God is on the throne in Heaven, and the Holy Spirit is indwelling in believers. They are all three God, but they are also separate. As it said in John 5:7 there are three, but these three are one.
Christ prayed to God, and it was God's voice that was heard. As an answer to your question. As to why Jesus prayed instead of doing it himself. I'll think on that.
Let me ask you a question. I have the scriptures already quoted in my last post, but I'll put them in again. Why is it alright to worship Jesus? If Jesus is not God, then worship of him would be sin. I can take you to many scriptures in the New Testament where Jesus was worshiped. I'll take you to Hebrews though: Hebrews 1:6b "And let all the angels of God worship him." The angels worshiping someone other than God? Wouldn't that be like what happened to Lucifer? I know Lucifer lifted himself up, instead of being lifted up by God, but Jesus told Satan Luke 4:8 "Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." So if God is only to be worshiped why was it alright for all the people who were healed, and many other people, to worship Jesus Christ. God is a God that does not change, and he wouldn't just say "Well now it's alright if you worship someone other than me." (As proof of God not changing - Malachi 3:6 "For I am the Lord, I change not;")
Second question - Why would John 1:1 say the Word was God, if he wasn't God?
@Shocko So people who believe in Evolution never argue? They never discuss what they believe to better understand things? This is how people learn. Science has just as much arguing and discussion as anything else. I was just going to ignore your posts, but I couldn't help but ask.
p.s. I'm not a Mormon, and our church believes in Tithes, based on Malachi 3:10, and a few other verses.
Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Feb 14 2009, 5:17 pm by Encore.
None.