Reavers are ridiculously powerful. I just played against a LM that did nothing but get mana and L2. No one could go near him the entire game, his 4 Reaver bursts were doing 1000+ damage; splash. On top of that he got CyCores, which was equally untouchable. One scarab ends my summoned army, and he just played defense the entire game with 450 mana.

Another case where capturing the gates hurt us far far more than it helped us, and how reavers are bullshit.

that can be balanced by increasing the price of the scarab's damage upgrade, but how would the ts community feel about that?

that LM farmed pretty well in my opinion with about 20+ ups and max mana ! i assume pretty late in the game eh?

No, even 15-20 minutes into the game he was doing enough enough damage to splash his own spawns and outpace even me as a summoner. I had all 3 lanes covered for the vast majority of the game and he just blew by me with splash.

Granted, LM is usually a defensive class, but we should've had the advantage by taking all 3 warp gates.

Whenever I decide to start on a new version, Psi Storm cost is definitely going up to 60 at least. ;o

pl0x

One of the strategies I took advantage of as soon as Moose introduced me to TS.

Yo, I was playing Assault and I felt that it's l2 desperately needed a countdown.

UU has already made changes. Assault was revamped, and so was Ops.

I've been dong this strat pretty much non-stop for the past week, I have a 90% chance of winning doing this. Like summoner milking, I start to see people copying. When I do the math for how many people I've completely murdered with this I'm surprised everyone isn't already running to LM like it's v1.2 DM.

It's honestly my favorite think to do now, but there is something you are lacking in your knowledge of it that I see you often over look faz-. When you make your claims (often) that something is rigged, you do it because you lost to it, and can't possibly see how this could be beaten so you rush to judgment. Now you played this strat yourself even for half as long as I have you'll learn how to beat it, and that nothing is invincible. I think this is the one point in your balance judgments(with the exception of spec ops) that makes me never take you seriously. You learn much more about the pros and cons by trying the 'rigged' strat than by just losing horribly to it.

Before I complain about something, I think about what I could have done differently that would have let me win or at least made the match closer. In this case, I could not think of a single thing that either myself or my teammate could have done that would have given us a chance against his strategy. If that's actually the case, I think it warrants a change.

Because he played defensively, the game lasted quite a while and I tried many different ways of catching him; there wasn't anything that we could find. Perhaps we simply had the "wrong" units, but I really find Reavers ridiculous. Simply look at the upgrades, +10. I suggest a Medic change from +4 to +5 and people think that +5 is a huge deal, this is +10 normal damage type ranged splashed that can hit under dark swarm. There was no counter that I saw to his Reavers, I couldn't even take out the spawned reavers that eventually ended me.

Clans, you're typically very vague and condescending. If you feel my logic is wrong, counter it, don't talk down to me.

So by your logic anything you can't think a way out of immediately warrants a change. I would not play that kind of map. What I told you was that you need to walk a mile in their moccasins. You need to actually try the cheap strategy out and see if it's really all the rigged from a new view. Summoner milking multiple lanes seems pretty rigged to the enemy when they're down 200 in exp, but when your managing the whole summoner mess yourself you definitely know you're earning it and it's not so easy. I'm saying that you need to not only it until you have a good game, I'm saying play it through until you start having that thought in your "Oh god don't let him assim the rest of the map"(there's one hint) or the other panicking thoughts, because then you'll know.

You just have to read what I say twice and you'll find I did present a reason. If it makes you feel any better I don't like battle tanks being in the game either.

My advice is just to save a replay if you feel that something was completely rigged and show it to us. Everyone has different experiences with the game, but if you show us without a doubt that there was nothing you could do to win, we're more likely to believe something is overpowered.

To hold us over until Unholy's next version or something more extensive by myself:

1.4M2 <--- OMFG NEW FILE NAME STOP THE PRESSES
- Kerrigans, Light Mage, and Summoner respawn with 0 energy.
- Gathering rates of Assimilators modified: 100% slower for a team of 3, 50% slower for a team of 2.
- Nexus builds faster and costs 100 minerals.
- Cannon stats: 2000 HP, 10 Armor, 400 shields, 60 dmg. (500 less HP, 100 less shields)
- Battle Tank got a shield cut of 200 and armor cut of 5.
- Decaptitate (L4) upgrade changed from +20 to +30. (Assassin)
- Fixed invincible Ghost bug. (Assault)
- Cannot spawn multiple Ghosts by flying off the Arena location. (Assault)
- Bug of no energy Corsair "should" be fixed. (Assault)
- Feedback now costs 65 energy like Maelstrom. (Dark Mage)
- Psionic Storm cost increased from 40 to 60 energy. (Dark and Light Mages)
- Reavers now upgrade +7 damage instead of +10. (Light Mage, Battle Tanks)
- Made Hyper Claw use 16 Lurkers again. Damage and upgrade is halved to 25 + 2. (overall less armor piercing)
- HP of Special Ops went to 4400. (since compensation for the damage change is not implemented) Attack is now 15 + 2.
- Increased cost of Adrenal Glands and Metabolic Boost to 75 minerals. (Summoner, Mutant L2)
- Raised cost of Dark Swarm from 75 to 100 energy. (Summoner)
- Decreased duration of Magnetic Channel (L2) from 80 to 60 counts. (Volt)

If we're lucky, that's all the changes. As a side note to Unholy, since you're working on your version simultaneously, I urge you to adopt the changes where applicable.

Did I accomplish everything I wanted to with this? Of course not. It fixed some balance problems, but didn't address all of them. Volt's L2 will hopefully be less gamebreaking. As will Marine with +2. Hopefully Assims will be more balanced. Mutant either needs a shit-ton of Lurker Upgrades or L4 to effectively damage the Temple... which is kind of a good thing because Mutant was OP in my opinion and nobody playing seriously ever got L4. Psionic Storm will hopefully be coming less often than 2 out of 3 spawns now. Summoner might rape slightly less in the hands of a skilled player. Maybe, if we're lucky, people might even build a Nexus more often.

There is, of course, a lot of work ahead. Which I would like to elaborate on, but I'm tired and want to release this so that I can go to sleep, so I'll save my grander schemes for another time.

Overall, I actually have some amount of enthusiam back to edit this again. So, this is a small but good step.

Download from the DLDB as usual: http://www.staredit.net/?file=808
Enjoy the new filename.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Jan 11 2009, 8:55 am by Mini Moose 2707.

Awesome! A new version!
Thanks Moose!

yes.... at first it didnt get upgrades which made me then it got low upgrades that made me then finally and now its like

You made cannons have less hp? ...

It barely matters, IP. It's still far easier to kill the pylon than the cannons, and once you've done that the cannons can't fire back. I can't think of a single time I've been killing a cannon that's shooting back at me. And the spawns (until marines) still can't kill them, only take out their shields.

Thanks a lot for the new version Moose. A lot of these changes are ones that I've been looking for or suggested.

Re: Clans. We did assim the whole map. He had a warrior HP whore teammate who pretty much solely killed them, but even still we rebuilt and I had 25/10 upgrades by the time he started spawning reavers. It doesn't really matter how much damage your Zerglings do when 8 of them die from one scarab. Ultralisks were too expensive and still died quickly. It would take 2 ultras to kill a single reaver.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 11 2009, 3:59 pm by FaZ-.

would it be nicer to make pylon invincible until surrounding cannons were destroyed? o.o

Or just build 2 and 2/3rds total Pylon for the price of one cannon.

Medic really should get this +5. Expect that in the next version. Even if I cut the base attack to like 19 or something. I haven't seen anyone NOT go weapon upgrades at the start with Medic right away, so reducing the base a bit would eliminate any early game imbalance that an extra 2 or 5 damage would create.
Medic's rate of fire really is relatively slow. You need 7 upgrades to 1 hit Broodlings and 17 (yes, fucking 17) to one hit Zerglings with Medic. With +5, it would be 6 uprades to 1 hit Broolings and 12 (much more reasonable) to one hit Zerglings.

Post has been edited 1 time(s), last time on Jan 11 2009, 8:19 pm by Mini Moose 2707.

What was the feedback on adding additional classes? I have a few suggestions if that ever comes to fruition.