I'm not desperate at all and your alcohol comparison really doesn't apply too well. A better comparison would be: I said: "OSMAP is used to steal maps". To apply this to your drunken driving point, that would be this "alcohol causes death in car accidents". Is giving up alcohol worth saving a life? I think so, is allowing authors to make their maps truly safe, we can give up OSMAP and ask for help on a forum.

As for the seeing both sides point, I completly understand the OSMAP side. I AGREE that if a map is unprotected and posted on a forum AND THE AUTHOR HAS NO OBJECTIONS (as in, you have his direct permission or he stated that the map was free for use), then it is 100% ok to use that map. I however, do NOT approve of the program OSMAP which essentially makes protecting maps completely worthless.

I am a supporter of open source mapping, I am against OSMAP.exe. I believe the programmer's stated purpose for this program is misleading, it does not create open source mapping, it FORCES it on everyone. Making the program publicly available forces open source mapping on ALL mappers, whether or not they agree with the concept of open source mapping.

you have got to be fucking kidding me...

you actually believe a mass of uncommented/poorly-commented is a better teacher than a person?

Yes, I do, since most people put it all into one section. I was able to figure out quite a few systems using that, such as the system used in Bounds.

No it doesn't. You are still free to protect your maps.
Sure, we have OSMAP and cracking that "protection" is within our technical ability, but that does not necessarily make your map unsafe.

IE, even though OSMAP exists, we have the discretion to not unprotect maps.
To go back to the analogy, even though alcohol exists, we have the discretion to not drive while drunk.

Guns kill people. People obviously don't kill people. Even though that the gun is just a tool, it is solely responsible for the actions of other people... correct?

You can also make a very good argument that the world would be much better off without guns.

I doubt most Utopian societies envision everyone having guns.

Nope. You have to take into account the bullet (unless the gun is used to pistol whip them or something), and then I believe the the literal cause of death following gunshot wounds is actually cardiac arrest (stemming from the shock and loss of blood), so you could blame the "victim's" poor health for causing their own demise. With that analogy, it's obviously a mapper's own fault for having their maps stolen. /sarcasm, but the twisted logic stands

I'm glad to see that finally SEN doesn't support OSMAP (just like it hasn't supported cracked software, Roms, etc. in the past). Also glad to see this topic revert to a discussion of OSMAP's morality.

You seem not to have understood the point I made. Of course we are free to protect maps, but it seems like quite a few people here have no problem unprotecting it without permission anyways, thus open source mapping IS being forced on them by the very program you are defending.

YOU perhaps, but what about everyone else? You cannot expect everyone to share the same ethics as yourself, because they don't. All it takes is one drunk driver to kill someone, all it takes is one person with OSMAP available to them to steal as many maps as he can find.

Neither of your responses has made a valid argument.

Just as you should not force your fear of OSMAP onto others. If you don't like it don't use it, no one will care if you do or don't. If you or anyone steals a map from one of our communities the rest of us are sure to notice and it won't go unpunished I'm sure.

I understand it perfectly.
I'm not sure if you understood mine though. You seem to have ignored it.

I am not defending OSMAP. I did not say a single word for it.
I don't know why you would think that.

Sure. There are certainly people who don't respect map protection.

One person stealing all the maps he can find? (For some reason?)
Well, many maps aren't protected to begin with, so this person having OSMAP isn't necessarily relevant.
What would it matter anyway? Stolen versions of maps do not harm the community.
Also, if someone really wants to do this... they can! How could you possibly stop them? What is your point?

Or maybe that Utopian society should not have protectors? Unprotection was created because of protection, protection was created because some mappers are paranoid mappers were influenced by a very small group that ruined it for everybody.

Which part? If all of it, why? Well, if it's only the name, yeah, then I agree it's stupid.

Protection was harming in that mappers could no longer learn from the protected maps by attempting opening them (obviously the maps wouldn't open).

Now there is possibility.

Post has been edited 2 time(s), last time on Sep 27 2007, 7:20 pm by LegacyWeapon. Reason: Clearing up any misconceptions

Learning? Fat chance.

Editing the map is the only thing you're going to gain from an unprotected map. And you seem to live in some fantasy world where humanity would ever use such a power for good. While certainly possible, editing an unprotected map to make it better does not happen. It is nice to dream though, eh? Too bad humanity never would have made it this far in the food chain if it weren't a ruthless species.

Ask urmom, he's has a ton of maps he's learned from that he's had to unprotect.

osmap helped me learn how to get interceptors to do what I want

That is amazing. Let us celebrate all the mundane things we can learn from unprotected maps, which could have been learned from maps that were never protected, or from virtually any map maker, or even the built in help in StarEdit that can be accessed with a swift press of the F1 key.

Please stop throwing bullshit arguments around. Thanks!

This is impossible to do by simply making a thread and asking for help?

Most of us, I'm assuming, are socially awkward. Simply by bypassing the forum aspect of this website, we can help everyone avoid all cumbersome interaction with one another, indirect as it already is! Hooray for OSMAP!